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Replies to My Conclusion About Protestants - Apologetics for the Masses #556
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Topic
Some of the responses I received from Protestants, in response to the conclusion I have come to about Protestants who dialogue with Catholics, that I posted on Facebook a couple of weeks ago.
General Comments
Hey folks,
3 things, all of which I'll be mentioning a few times in the next several newsletters. Here are two upcoming conferences at which I'll be speaking:
1) Totus Tuus Family Conference; October 9-11, 2026. Sponsored by The Apostolate for Family Consecration/Catholic Familyland.
Where: AFC's Catholic Familyland property in Bloomingdale, OH (20 minutes west of Steubenville, OH).
Who: The entire family with talks for mom and dad and breakout ministry sessions for ages 4-12, 13-14, 15-17, 18-21 and 22-30.
Keynote speakers: Catholic Apologist John Martignoni (Friday night), Theologian Dr. Ralph Martin, and Author Kevin Wells.
Break-out speakers: Deacon Keith Fournier, Katrina Zeno, and Mary and Christi Tripodi
Includes: Mass, Confession, Divine Mercy Chaplet, Candlelight Rosary Procession to the Holy family Prayer Site, great food, fellowship and MORE!
For more information or to register: Totus Tuus | Apostolate for Family Consecration
(And, if you have kids, and you've never been to Catholic Familyland, you need to definitely check out their summer retreats. My family loved it!)
2) Gentlemen, if you live in or around the Scranton/Wilkes-Barre, Pennsylvania area, I'll be speaking on Saturday, October 10th, at the Be A Catholic Man Conference in Wilkes-Barre. Other speakers include: Bishop Joseph Coffey, Bishop Joseph Bambera, and Brian Holdsworth. I would love to see you there!
3) Point of Information: Would any of you be interested in participating in some sort online apologetics class/seminar, or apologetics Bible study, or anything else along those lines? Led, of course, by yours truly. Let me know what you think, if you would be interested, or if there is some other apologetics/evangelization type of activitiy that would interest you. I'm open to any and all suggestions.
Introduction
Okay, last week I gave you guys a conclusion I have come to about Protestants. Now, I wasn't talking about all Protestants. I was talking about the vast majority of Protestants who engage in dialogue with Catholics and/or post videos about Catholics on Facebook, YouTube, TikTok, Instagram, etc. I posted that conclusion on Facebook and got some instant pushback from Protestants in regard to what I said. The ironic thing is, though, that most of the comments I received from the Protestants objecting to what I had concluded about them, did nothing but reinforce and reaffirm my conclusion.
So, below, I am going to repeat the conclusion I have come to about Protestants who engage with Catholics on social media and elsewhere, and then give you a few of the responses I received back from Protestants and then my replies to them. The purpose in all of this is twofold:
1) To essentially show you who and what you're dealing with - the mindset you're dealing with - when you engage with Protestants on social media, or via email, or wherever you might encounter folks that take issue with the fact that you're Catholic and try to convince you that you shouldn't be. If you are expecting to find Protestants in these arenas with whom you can have rational, logical, and reasonable conversations...don't hold your breath. I'm not saying they aren't out there, I'm just saying don't expect the rational, logical, and reasonable Protestant to be the norm - at least, when it comes to talking Bible and religion and salvation and such.
2) To give you some basic responses you can use in your conversations with Protestants that will help you sift out the crazies, the unserious, the ridiculous, and so on in order to spare you a lot of time and frustration. You've seen these questions/arguments before if you've been a subscriber for a while, but here they are being used in situations that you may find yourself in, or at least ones similar to these. You can use them any number of times in any number of conversations.
And, when you do engage with them, which we must, remember that they are, most of the time, acting out of a deep-seated fear. The fear that the Catholic argument might actually make some sense. The fear that they might - if they're going to be intellectually honest - have to objectively evaluate the Catholic argument. It's as if, when they engage with Catholics, there is someone whispering in their ear, saying: "Don't listen to them. Don't even think about considering what they say. Be afraid. Be very afraid." So don't get angry. Don't get frustrated. Remember, your job is not to convert or convince anyone. Your job is to simply sow the seeds.
Challenge/Response/Strategy
I have come to the conclusion that the arrogance and hypocrisy - and, quite often, outright stupidity - displayed by Protestants when engaging with Catholics, are merely secondary effects of what is really going on inside of them. The primary compulsion which motivates their attitude toward Catholics is...fear.
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Protestant Response #1 - Paul Leis
John S. Martignoni
Tell me this, Paul, are you willing to engage in a conversation to try and prove that my statement above is indeed false? If so, I will ask you a question: I assume you believe in Sola Scriptura, right? (If not, please correct me on that.) So, going by Sola Scriptura, how do you know what books should and should not be in the Bible? In other words, where, in the Bible, is the list of books that should be in the Bible? Or, are you relying on some authority outside of the Bible in order to have your Bible in the 1st place?
Paul Leis
The king james bible, not yours.you say the word authority. yall allways come up with that nonsence. no man is give authority by christ. he even said." trust no man" . that means any leader ,period. woke leaders are to prevalent these days. so is universalism..look that up.
John S. Martignoni
And there ya go...proving my thesis that non-Catholics are afraid to give direct responses to direct questions/arguments from Catholics. First of all, my question has absolutely nothing to do with what translation of the Bible you use. But, happy to do it your way. So here is my very easy question, once again: Going by Sola Scriptura, how do you know what books should and should not be in the King James Version of the Bible? In other words, where, in the King James Bible, is the list of books that should be in the Bible? Or are you relying on some authority outside of the Bible in order to have your King James Bible in the 1st place?
And, if Jesus gave no man authority, then why does the Bible say that Paul has authority that was given to him by Jesus? You probably don't even know where the Bible says that, do you? And why does the Word of God say that Titus should speak, exhort, and rebuke with "all authority"?
And, if we are to "trust no man," then why was Paul "put in trust with the gospel" by God Himself? You probably don't know the places the Bible says that, either, do you? And why does Paul tell Timothy to "keep that which is committed to thy trust"? Kinda makes me think that you haven't read the Bible very closely.
Paul Leis
And there you go, twisting. st. paul had authority because only the apostles saw jesus and gave him that authority. no such thing now. and trusting no man, moron ,of coarse we trust jesus. what part of that dont you dont understand. go ahead and trust your false teachings. ill seek truth.
John S. Martignoni
And, still proving my original statement about Protestants. I will ask one more time: Going by Sola Scriptura, how do you know what books should and should not be in the King James Version of the Bible? In other words, where, in the King James Bible, is the list of books that should be in the Bible? Or are you relying on some authority outside of the Bible in order to have your King James Bible in the 1st place? Are you unable to answer that question because of holes in your theology, or are you simply unwilling to answer that question because you know it will show your theology to contain contradictions?
Paul Leis
your brainwashed ..get some prayer..what proof you have is all sola hogwash is catholic. bye .
Comments/Strategy
Protestant Response #2 - Cathy Carroll
Deep down we feel bad that you have been taught so many lies. Jesus died for you, too
John S. Martignoni
Can you name one of the "lies" we have been taught?
Cathy Carroll
That Peter was made the pope of the Roman Catholic Church when Constantine ordered it to be in charge in pagan Rome in 313. He was tired of all the religions fighting and he may or may have repented on his death bed. He ordered that babies be baptized. That Mary was to be worshipped because her body ascended into heaven, which was approved as dogma on November 1, 1950, and not 1900 years earlier. That it was a sin to touch the host with your fingers until 1965. That it was a sin to not fast from midnight to go to communion in 1965. It became a sin if you didnt fast for 3 hours and then you had to fast for only 1 hour in late 60s. It was a mortal sin to miss mass on Sundays and holidas unless you were really sick. Then you could go at 5 pm the evening before and it wasnt a mortal sin after 1965. Were they mortal sins or werent they? How could the church up and make changes about mortal sins? That Jesus died for me personally and the church didn't save me. There is one mention of purgtory in a book that doesnt have a strong enough foundation to be included in the Bible. That you could give the church money and buy your way out of purgatory early. Then suddenly you couldn't. That priests could marry until 1139 and then they couldn't. But cardinals and popes could have mistresses and children after that. That there was a break in the line oaf popes when there were 37 "antipopes" at different times as designated by the Roman Catholic Church itself. That there were 3 popes at the same time for about 12 years. That Joan of Arc was a heretic and burned at the stake. But then the church changed its mind and made her a saint in 1920, over 400 years later. That the rosary was blessed by the church in the first few centuries but not actually until 1569. That Latin was the language of the church and the Bible, but not until 405 AD. Before that, the Bible and Christians spoke Aramaic, Hebrew and Greek, which were the languages of Judea and Jerusalem. That I had to follow all the rules and dictates of the Roman Catholic Church or I wouldn't go to heaven when I died, when actually Jesus paid the price for our sins and died for me and loves me unconditionally and infinitely. I am God the Father's beloved daughter and He, too, loves me exactly the way I am and finds me lovable and funny. Enough lies for you?
John S. Martignoni
Well, your "lies" are indeed lies...but they're your lies, not the Church's. Let's take your 1st "lie" - That Peter was not the head of the Church. Did Jesus appoint Peter as the shepherd of His flock...yes or no? Here's another lie: You don't believe the Body of Christ - the Church - had anything to do with your salvation. Yet, the Bible very clearly states that it does. Do you believe the Bible or not? By the way, what were "all the religions" that were fighting with one another in Rome in 313? Can you name them?
Cathy Carroll
Those are lies your church taught me. I feel so sorry for you. God bless you.
John S. Martignoni
Ah, yes, thanks for being a perfect example of what I said in my post that you objected to. In just 3 short posts, you have demonstrated arrogance, hypocrisy, and stupidity. All of which are the result of your fear. Your fear of honestly engaging with, and considering - without bias or prejudice - the arguments Catholics make on behalf of the Catholic Faith. You fear doing so because you know, deep down, that an honest evaluation of the arguments might possibly lead to you realizing that the arguments you make against the Catholic Church, simply do not in any way, shape, or form stack up to the arguments made on behalf of the Catholic Church. Again, thank you for making my point for me.
Cathy Carroll
I dont fear. I feared God the Father as a Catholic. I don't since I met Him personally.
John S. Martignoni
And, once again, proving my original statement to be true. If you don't fear, then why won't you answer my three very simple questions:
1) Did Jesus appoint Peter to be the head of the flock...yes or no?
2) Do you believe the church is necessary for salvation...yes or no?
3) You stated that there were all these religions in Rome in 313 that were fighting with one another. Can you name some of them or not?
John S. Martignoni
Cathy Carroll, hello? Can't...or won't?...answer my questions? They're pretty easy questions to answer if you have sound theology.
Comments/Strategy
Conclusion affirmed. I asked for "one" lie that Catholics have been taught and she pulls the ol' "throw everything at them but the kitchen sink" tactic. In a situation like this, do not think you have to reply to every single "lie" that she throws out there. If you do, you have totally lost control of the conversation and you have 0% chance of having anything that comes close to resembling a productive conversation. So, I picked just 3 of her "lies" to respond to. And how did I respond? Not by trying to prove what the Catholic Church teaches, not by giving long involved comments, but by asking her questions to see if she has any clue as to what she is saying. Turns out, she didn't, so she retreated from the field of battle. Fear.
Protestant Response #3 - Steve Christie
I’m afraid that’s a bit of a stereotype, because I can make the same comments about a lot of Roman Catholics. For instance, Joe Heschmeyer has backed out of three different debates with protestants in the last year, and now he’s saying, he never agreed to debate them, even though we have the texts to prove it. So is it fair to say that Roman Catholics like Joe are saying this because of “fear“? Although that may be true of “some” protestants, I’m afraid you’re making an over generalization. Perhaps protestants have arguments that Roman Catholics simply can’t answer, not that their arguments are weak or that they’re “fearful.“
John S. Martignoni
The situation you describe in regard to Joe Heschmeyer is completely irrelevant to this discussion. An actually relevant analogy would be if Joe Heschmeyer had gone to each of those debates, given his first round comments in which he totally trashed Protestants, Protestant theology, Protestant churches, etc., then walked out immediately after he spoke while refusing to answer any questions or respond to any counter-arguments. Then he would have done something similar to what my comments are describing Protestants as doing. Then your analogy would hold some water.
"Perhaps protestants have arguments that Roman Catholics simply can't answer, not that their arguments are weak or that they're 'fearful.'" Okay, let me get this straight - you contend that the reason Protestants won't engage in rational, reasoned, and logical arguments with Catholics, and why they quite often avoid any and all questions/arguments from Catholics, is because the Protestants' arguments are so strong that Catholics can't answer them? Really?! Do you want to maybe re-think that one?
Look, you are living proof of what I said in my conclusion in the OP - about Protestants not giving direct, coherent, and rational responses to questions/arguments from Catholics. Below are 3 questions I asked of you several years back in a dialogue that we had on Facebook. I asked these questions of you multiple times and you never - not once! - answered them. You seemed to be afraid of answering them. {This dialogue was featured in Apologetics for the Masses #367.}
So, care to try again? Care to disprove me? Or is there indeed a fear of doing so deep down in your soul?
Here they are:
1) What authority, if any, is there behind your interpretations of Scripture?
2) Are you infallible in your interpretations of Scripture? Yes or no? If, yes, why should I believe that to be so? Give me a witness that will corroborate your infallibility.
3) If, no, then will you admit that all of your interpretations of Scripture are nothing more than your own personal, non-authoritative, non-binding, fallible opinions?
John Martignoni
(After waiting 4 days for a reply from Steve Christie.) Steve Christie, Hello? Anyone there?
Steve Christie
I don’t live on Facebook. I have been busy. I will eventually get back to you with a response.
(That was 3 days ago...still waiting for a reply to my questions.)
Comments/Strategy
Conclusion affirmed. I thought it was rather rich that a guy who I had engaged with in the past, and who had refused to answer those 3 questions, even though I asked them multiple times, would come onto my Facebook page to claim that my conclusion - about Protestants being afraid to honestly engage Catholics and give direct answers to Catholic questions and arguments - is "a bit of a stereotype". When the fact of the matter is, he himself was one of those Protestants who was unwilling to answer questions I had asked him in a previous dialogue!
So, what did I do? I responded to his argument about Joe Heschmeyer (and I have no idea if what he said about Joe is true or not, but, as I said, it's irrelevant whether it is or isn't). Then, I responded to that incredibly messed up argument about Protestants possibly not wanting to engage with Catholics because the Protestant arguments were so strong that Catholics can't answer them. Yeah, right. Finally, I simply asked him the 3 questions that I asked him a few years back on Facebook - multiple times - that he refused to answer. I'm going to let him prove to me that my conclusion about Protestants is not applicable in his case. It's been 7 days, and I still have no answers to those questions. Do you think I'll ever get a straight answer from him? We'll see...but I'm not counting on it.
Now, I know he gave the excuse that he doesn't "live on Facebook" and that he'll "eventually" get back to me. But here's the thing. If he were to give me intellectually honest answers, it would take him less time to answer those 3 questions, than it took for him to make that post about not living on Facebook. This is how he should answer them...if he's being intellectually honest:
1) What authority, if any, is there behind your interpretations of Scripture? Honest Answer: None.
2) Are you infallible in your interpretations of Scripture? Yes or no? Honest Answer: No.
3) If, no, then will you admit that all of your interpretations of Scripture are nothing more than your own personal, non-authoritative, non-binding, fallible opinions? Honest Answer: Yes, my interpretations of Scripture are nothing more than my personal, non-authoritative, non-binding, fallible opinions.
Closing Comments
There were a number of other comments that I received from Protestants that were in the same vein as these, but these suffice to demonstrate my point. Although, there was one conversation that I thought had a chance to turn out differently, which I'll feature in the next newsletter, but ultimately ended up, once again, confirming my original posted conclusion about Protestants who engage with Catholics on matters of religion.
I hope all of you have a great week! Please pray for us...we're praying for you!
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