A Conversation With A Baptist Minister (Part 4) - Apologetics for the Masses #544

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Topic

A conversation with a Baptist Minister (Part 4).

General Comments

Well, I got the technical "glitches" finally worked out in regard to my podcast equipment - many thanks for your prayers in that regard. So, I hope to start recording some videos beginning next week. It's going to be a bit of a learning curve - recording, editing, camera angles, sound, lighting, etc. - so the 1st several videos will kind of be trial and error, but it's one step at a time. I hope to be able to post the videos to Facebook, YouTube, Instagram, and TikTok. We'll see how it goes...keep those prayers for this project coming my way!

Introduction

This week I continue my conversation with the Baptist Pastor I featured in the last three newsletters. As I stated last time, his replies kind of got a bit convoluted and out of order, so I took his last reply to me and broke up my response into 4 parts. For Part 1, see the last newsletter: Apologetics for the Masses #544.

In this issue, I'll be featuring Parts 2 and 3 of my response. The discussions on both Part 2 and Part 3 are self-contained, so you really don't need to go back to the previous newsletter for any background unless you really want to do so. Part 2 is focused on whether or not St. Augustine believed in Once Saved Always Saved. The Baptist Pastor believes he did and gives a quote from a document written by St. Augustine that he thinks proves it. Unfortunately, for the Pastor, I happened to read the entire document.

Part 3 of my response to the Pastor is an answer to the Bible verses he gives, and the several different comments he makes, in an attempt to "prove" that Once Saved Always Saved is indeed a scriptural concept. I, and Scripture, beg to differ. If you are ever in a conversation with a Protestant on OSAS, Part 3 below will give you all sorts of ammunition - from Scripture - to unleash an absolute monsoon to rain on the OSAS parade.

It's a little long - about 8 pages when printed out - but I wanted to get both Parts 2 and 3 in this issue and leave next week's newsletter just for Part 4. So, my comments in this issue will be relatively brief, as I think why I say what I say is pretty self-evident.

Challenge/Response/Strategy

John's Response - Part II
(This second part will be in response to Baptist Pastor's points #2 and #4 from the last newsletter.)

Point #2 - My Original Comments
What makes Augustine more authoritative than any other Catholic? A. He was a bishop of the Catholic Church. B. He is recognized as a saint by the Catholic Church which means the Church regards his teachings to be free of doctrinal error.

Baptist Pastor's Response
“Since your question about John 15 is in regards to OSAS and you are referencing St. Augustine as more authoritative (or maybe completely authoritative?): I am still under the impression that Augustine was a proponent of OSAS. Isn't he arguing for Predestination and the Perseverance of the Saints in his Treatise on the Gift of Perseverance in this quote below?

St. Augustine: "This grace He placed ‘in Him in whom we have obtained a lot, being predestinated according to the purpose of Him who worketh all things.’ And thus as He worketh that we come to Him, so He worketh that we do not depart. Wherefore it was said to Him by the mouth of the prophet, ‘Let Thy hand be upon the man of Thy right hand, and upon the Son of man whom Thou madest strong for Thyself, and we will not depart from Thee.’ This certainly is not the first Adam, in whom we departed from Him, but the second Adam, upon whom His hand is placed, so that we do not depart from Him. For Christ altogether with His members is—for the Church’s sake, which is His body—the fulness of Him. When, therefore, God’s hand is upon Him, that we depart not from God, assuredly God’s work reaches to us (for this is God’s hand); by which work of God we are caused to be abiding in Christ with God—not, as in Adam, departing from God. For ‘in Christ we have obtained a lot, being predestinated according to His purpose who worketh all things.’ ‘This, therefore, is God’s hand, not ours, that we depart not from God. That, I say, is His hand who said, ‘I will put my fear in their hearts, that they depart not from me.’”

John's Reply
First of all, St. Augustine has authority by virtue of his ordination as a bishop. He received the authority through the laying on of hands of another bishop, who received his authority through the laying on of hands of another bishop and so on and so on all the way back to the beginning of the Church. St. Augustine could trace the authority he received through the laying on of hands back to the Apostles themselves. And, through the Apostles, to Jesus Christ.

Secondly, regarding your claim that St. Augustine believed in OSAS, I would say that you are reading Augustine through Protestant, not Catholic, eyes and, therefore, do not understand him as well as Catholics do. Augustine is not talking of predestination in the exact sense that Protestants do. Furthermore, you are not reading Augustine’s comments in context. You need to read the entire document as opposed to just looking at a few snippets here and there. Below are a couple of quotes which you apparently did not read - from that same document you quote - that pretty much slam the door on any thought that Augustine believed in OSAS:

Treatise on the Predestination of the Saints and the Gift of Perseverance: "For what Christian would dare to deny that the righteous man, if he should be prematurely laid hold of by death, will be in repose? Let who will, say this, and what man of sound faith will think that he can withstand it? Moreover, if he should say that the righteous man, if he should depart from his righteousness in which he has long lived, and should die in that impiety after having lived in it, I say not a year, but one day, will go hence into the punishment due to the wicked, his righteousness having no power in the future to avail him — will any believer contradict this evident truth?" (Book I, On the Predestination of the Saints, Chapter 26)

St. Augustine says that if a “righteous man” - a.k.a., a saved believer in OSAS theology, right? - should depart from his righteousness he will go “into the punishment due to the wicked”. “Will any believer contradict this truth?” Will you, Pastor? Scripture directly backs him up on this - Ezekiel 18:24, 33:13. OSAS? Not happening here. And then there’s this other quote of St. Augustine's from that same document:

"I Have now to consider the subject of perseverance with greater care; for in the former book also I said some things on this subject when I was discussing the beginning of faith. I assert, therefore, that the perseverance by which we persevere in Christ even to the end is the gift of God; and; therefore, it is uncertain whether any one has received this gift so long as he is still alive. For if he fall before he dies, he is, of course, said not to have persevered; and most truly I call that the end by which is finished that life wherein alone there is peril of falling is it said. How, then, should he be said to have received or to have had perseverance who has not persevered? For if any one have continence, and fall away from that virtue and become incontinent — or, in like manner, if he have righteousness, if patience, if even faith, and fall away, he is rightly said to have had these virtues and to have them no longer; for he was continent, or he was righteous, or he was patient, or he was believing, as long as he was so; but when he ceased to be so, he no longer is what he was. But how should he who has not persevered have ever been persevering, since it is only by persevering that any one shows himself persevering — and this he has not done? But lest any one should object to this, and say, If from the time at which any one became a believer he has lived — for the sake of argument — ten years, and in the midst of them has fallen from the faith, has he not persevered for five years? I am not contending about words. If it be thought that this also should be called perseverance, as it were for so long as it lasts, assuredly he is not to be said to have had in any degree that perseverance of which we are now discoursing, by which one perseveres in Christ even to the end. And the believer of one year, or of a period as much shorter as may be conceived of, if he has lived faithfully until he died, has rather had this perseverance than the believer of many years' standing, if a little time before his death he has fallen away from the steadfastness of his faith." (Book II, On the Gift of Perseverance, Chapter 1)

A “believer” who has fallen away “from the steadfastness of his faith.” That puts the nail in the coffin of any thought that St. Augustine believed in OSAS.

Point #4 - My Original Comments
St. Augustine did not believe in OSAS. He was a faithful bishop of the Catholic Church and the Catholic Church does not now, nor has it ever, believed and taught OSAS. Here is one quote from him that puts to rest any thought that he believed in OSAS:

"In that one [Adam], as the apostles says, all have sinned. Let, then, the damnable source be rebuked, that from the mortification of rebuke may spring the will of regeneration—if, indeed, he who is rebuked is a child of promise,—in order that, by the noise of the rebuke sounding and lashing from without. . . . God may by his hidden inspiration work in him from within to will also. If, however, being already regenerate and justified, he relapses of his own will into an evil life, assuredly he cannot say, 'I have not received,' because of his own free choice to evil he has lost the grace of God that he had received," (On Rebuke and Grace, ch. 9).

Baptist Pastor's Response
I understand Augustine to say that he believes that those who are truly saved, "those God predestined", will persevere until the end. If an individual does not persevere they were never a believer in the first place. Those that repent from their unfruitfulness and sin are those that are truly saved, those who remain unrepentant were never saved. This also harmonizes with those who are truly abiding in Christ are those who are pruned and not cut off. This aligns with Matt 3:10 where Jesus is rebuking the religious Jewish leaders that are not bearing fruit.

John's Reply
As I stated above, you are reading St. Augustine through a Protestant lens, and out of context. St. Augustine, just like any other Catholic, does not use language such as one being “truly” saved. Nor does he say anything remotely akin to, “If an individual does not persevere they were never a believer in the first place.” That’s why he says, in those quotes I gave above, that we can never be sure if we are going to persevere to the end in this life until this life is over. Because at any time, the righteous man, the believer, the “saved” person, can exercise his free will and turn to wickedness and fall away “from the steadfastness of his faith,” thus losing his salvation. If he didn’t “truly” believe, then how can he be spoken of as a "believer" and as being "righteous" and as having had “steadfastness of faith”?

Sorry, but St. Augustine in no way, shape, or form believed in Once Saved Always Saved. St. Augustine was a faithful son of the Catholic Church, and the Catholic Church has never - ever - taught Once Saved Always Saved. That is a doctrine that never existed before Martin Luther came upon the scene.

Strategy/Comments
If anyone ever tries to tell you that St. Augustine believed in Once Saved Always Saved, the quotes I presented above should nip that claim in the bud.

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John's Response - Part III
(This third part will be in response to Baptist Pastor's point #6 from the last newsletter.)

Point #6 - My Original Comments
Actually, there are dozens and dozens of passages in Scripture that show, pretty clearly, that losing your salvation is indeed possible. Way more, in fact, than those few passages that “seem,” when improperly interpreted to teach eternal security.

Baptist Pastor's Response
“I would say that there are more than a ‘few passages’ that teach eternal security: John 6:37, 39; 10:27-29; Hebrews 10:10; Romans 8:28-31, 38-39; 11:29, Jude1:1, 24; 2 Cor 1:22; Phil 1:6; Eph 1:1-23, 4:30; 1 John 2:19, 5:4; 1 Cor 1:8-9; 1 Peter 1:4-5; 2 Cor 5:5.”

John's Reply
Not a single one of those passages teaches “eternal security” or that once a person is saved they can never lose their salvation. That is a belief you held before ever approaching those passages and simply forced that predetermined meaning onto them. Will you admit that none of the following phrases: “eternal security,” “once saved always saved,” “can never lose your salvation,” “once a believer always a believer,” nor anything similar appear in any of those verses you cited? Nor do they appear in any verse in the Bible, do they? In other words, any rendering of these verses to come up with an “eternal security” meaning for them, is nothing more than your personal, fallible, non-authoritative interpretation of those passages...is it not?

Those verses you cited talk of what God can do for us. They speak of how nothing can “snatch” us away from God. And so on. But, they do not - not a single one of them - say that we cannot, of our own free will, walk away from God...abandon God...and lose our salvation by sinning against God. Not one!

In fact, let’s look at a sampling of the verses you cite and see if they do indeed mean what your theology is trying to force them to mean.

John 6:37-39, “All that the Father gives Me will come to Me; and him who comes to Me I will not cast out...and this is the will of Him Who sent Me, that I should lose nothing of all that He has given Me...”

So, you interpret this as an absolute. Everyone who comes to Jesus (i.e., everyone who believes), will never be lost. It’s God’s will, after all, that Jesus should lose “nothing of all” that the Father has given Him.

This passage says Jesus will not cast out anyone who comes to Him. Absolutely He won’t! But, nowhere does it say that those who come to Him can’t afterwards leave Him of their own free will. I mean, Scripture itself gives us examples of that: John 17:12, “While I was with them [the Apostles], I kept them in Thy name, which Thou hast given Me; I have guarded them, and none of them is lost but the son of perdition...” So, even though it is the Father’s will that Jesus should lose none of those given to Him...it seems He lost one of the first 12 given to Him. Judas walked away of his own free will. Then there’s John 6:66 where many of the disciples who “believed in Him” (John 2:11) left Him. So, the statement about losing “nothing” in John 6:37-39 is not an absolute.

God’s will is indeed supreme, but He doesn’t force us to follow it. I mean, if He did, then everyone would be saved. 1 Tim 2:4, “[God] wants all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.” It’s God’s will that all men be saved, but not all men are saved, are they? So, again, God’s will is sovereign, but we can frustrate it of our own free will. We also see in Luke 7:30 where God wanted the Pharisees and the lawyers to be baptized with the baptism of John, but they “rejected” the purpose of God for them. We do not lose our free will. We can, at any time, walk away from God.

John 10:27-29, “My sheep hear My voice...no one shall snatch them out of My hand...and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand.”

Indeed, no once can “snatch” the sheep out of God’s hand. However, where does it say the sheep can’t walk away of their own free will?

Hebrews 10:10, “And by that will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.”

Amen! So, you interpret “once for all” as meaning that those who have been sanctified - i.e., saved - cannot then lose their salvation, right? But, what about a few verses later in Hebrews 10:26-29?

Hebrews 10:26-29, “For if we sin deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a fearful prospect of judgment, and a fury of fire...A man who has violated the law of Moses dies without mercy at the testimony of two or three witnesses. How much worse punishment do you think will be deserved by the man who has spurned the Son of God, and profaned the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and outraged the Spirit of grace?”

A sanctified (i.e., saved) man - one who has received the “knowledge of the truth” - who has then “spurned” the Son of God?! “Profaned” the blood of the covenant?! “Outraged” the Holy Spirit?! And who is liable to a judgment of a fury of fire! I mean, if you’ve “outraged” the Holy Spirit, that doesn’t mean you’re still saved, does it? Either OSAS is true, or this passage from the Word of God is true - it can’t be both.

Romans 11:29, “For the gifts and the call of God are irrevocable.”

So you interpret that to mean that once you have received the “gift” of salvation through faith, God will never take it away, right? Yet, just a few verses earlier, what do we read:

Romans 11:21-22, “For if God did not spare the natural branches [the Jews] neither will He spare you. Note then the kindness and the severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen, but God’s kindness to you, if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you, too, will be cut off.”

“If” you continue in His kindness? IF?! Under OSAS theology, there is no “if”. Isn’t it a given...an absolute certainty...that you will indeed “continue” in His kindness...no ifs, ands, or buts about it? Aren’t you eternally secure in His kindness? If OSAS is true, then what the heck is Paul talking about here? How can the already saved branches be cut off from Christ? Kinda hearkens back to the saved branches of the vine in John 15:1-6 that get cut off for not producing fruit...doesn’t it?

I can do basically the same thing with all of those verses you cited because, again, not a single one of them specifically and directly states “eternal security” or “once saved always saved” or anything similar. They are “eternal security” verses only by the rendering of your personal, fallible interpretation of those verses.

Strategy/Comments
Whenever someone gives you a Bible verse and claims that it teaches something contrary to the Catholic Faith, make sure you actually read the verse! Either it doesn't say what they claim it says (as in this case), or they take it entirely out of context.

John's Reply (Cont'd)
On the other side, though, here are a few more verses from the Word of God that shed a pretty dim light on OSAS:

2 Cor 13:5-6, “Examine yourselves to see whether you are holding to your faith. Test yourselves. Do you not realize that Jesus Christ is in you? Unless, indeed you fail to meet the test.” Under OSAS, there is no need to see if you’re holding to your faith - if you have faith, you are prevented from losing it.

Hebrews 4:1, 6, 11, “Therefore, while the promise remains, let us fear lest any of you be judged to have failed to reach it...and those who formerly received the good news failed to enter it [God’s rest] because of disobedience...Let us therefore strive to enter that rest, that no one fall by the same sort of disobedience.” Why do they have to “strive” to enter that rest? Why doesn’t it say, “Now that you have entered that rest...,” as opposed to still striving to enter that rest, if OSAS is true? And note how it says that they could indeed fall, and fail to enter that rest. How? Through lack of faith? No. Through disobedience. Through sin.

Colossians 1:21-23, “And you who once were estranged and hostile in mind, doing evil deeds, He has now reconciled I His body of flesh by His death, in order to present you holy and blameless and irreproachable, before Him, if you continue in the faith, stable and steadfast, not shifting from the hope of the gospel...” “IF”?! “If” you continue in the faith? No OSAS here.

Hebrews 10:38, “...but My righteous one shall live by faith, and if he shrinks back, My soul has no pleasure in him.” There’s that word again...“if”. Why talk about His righteous one falling away, if it’s impossible for His righteous one to fall away?

Hebrews 6:4-6, “For it is impossible to restore again to repentance those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the goodness of the Word of God and the powers of the age to come, if they then commit apostasy, since they crucify the Son of God on their own account and hold him up to contempt.” OSAS theology renders this passage as utter nonsense. It is clearly talking about believers. Those who have been “enlightened,” have “tasted the heavenly gift,” have become “partakers of the Holy Spirit,” and have “tasted the goodness of the Word of God”. Believers! Yet, it clearly states that they can commit apostasy! Are apostates saved in OSAS theology? No, they aren’t. Clearly, believers can indeed walk away from Jesus and lose their salvation.

Just two more verses to slam this door shut:

1 Tim 5:8, “If anyone does not provide for his relatives, and especially for his own family, he has disowned the faith and is worse than an unbeliever.” Through sin, one can disown the faith. Well, you can’t “disown” the faith unless you first “own” the faith. And what happens if you disown the faith? Are you still saved? Not unless you think that being “worse than an unbeliever” means you’re still saved. No OSAS here.

And, finally, 1 Tim 4:1, which is very clear and very direct, that people can indeed depart from the faith, and thus, lose their salvation:

1 Tim 4:1, “Now the Spirit expressly says that in later times some will depart from the faith by giving heed to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons...” I don’t know how the Word of God can be any clearer than that. The Holy Spirit “expressly” says that there will be those who “depart” from the faith. Well, according to you, if someone truly believes, then they can’t depart from the faith. But, you can’t depart from something that you aren’t first in. To “depart” from the faith you have to first “have” the faith. And, if you have the faith, then, according to OSAS, you can’t depart from the faith. So, please explain to me, Pastor, how people can depart from the faith if OSAS is true?

I could give more passages along those lines - such as the ones from Revelation 2 and 3, where Jesus upbraids some of the 7 churches, threatening to remove a lampstand from a church and threatening to blot out people’s names from the Book of Life and to vomit others out of His mouth. And on and on and on I could go...

Now, just a few final points to mention to wrap this up:

1) My Original Comments
OSAS renders any number of Scripture passages as nonsense. For example, in the Sermon on the Mount, Jesus says it is better to cut off your hand or pluck out your eye if they cause you to sin because it is better to be in Heaven with one eye or one hand than to have your whole body in Hell. That makes no sense if OSAS is true. Jesus is talking about “believers” here, because unbelievers have no chance of getting to Heaven, right? And what does He say about believers? Better they maim themselves to avoid sin and get to Heaven, then go into Hell whole. Why would He say that if believers can’t lose their salvation? Makes absolutely no sense. If OSAS is true, then Jesus would have said, “Do what you have to in order to avoid sin, but know that, even if you sin, you are still going to Heaven.”

Baptist Pastor
No Christian has ever interpreted the Sermon on the Mount to literally teach that we should gouge our eyes out and cut off our limbs [Matt 5:29-30]. It is obviously figurative language that we should avoid sin at all costs.”

John's Reply
I never said it was a “literal” teaching. You either missed, or are avoiding, the actual point I made about this passage. You yourself admit that the meaning of the passage is that we should “avoid sin at all costs”. But why? Why avoid sin “at all costs”? What is the penalty, according to Jesus, for those who have Heaven open to them (i.e., “believers”), if they do sin? “It is better that you lose one of your members than that your whole body go into hell.” Hell! Hell is the punishment for sin, Pastor, is it not? It is indeed. At least, according to Jesus. If OSAS is true, then there is no eternal consequence of sin - you yourself said so. But, here, in the Sermon on the Mount, Jesus makes it very clear that there is indeed an eternal consequence for sin. I would be very interested in hearing your explanation for why Jesus said what He said if sin doesn’t get you thrown into Hell.

2) Pastor, you stated the following: “We should pursue holiness but we will still fall short. So...yeah...even if you sin you are still going to Heaven...”

John's Reply
First, can you give me any verse from Scripture that says, “Even if you sin, you are still going to Heaven?” Also, I ask you to consider Hebrews 12:14, “Strive for peace with all men and for the holiness without which no one will see the Lord.” You say we will fall short of holiness; yet, the Bible says we need holiness or we will not “see the Lord”.

3) Pastor, you stated the following: “We will be judged for our works when we get to heaven.”

John's Reply
Again, I must ask, where does the Bible say such a thing? I can’t find a single verse that says we will be judged by our works after we get to Heaven. Plenty that say we will be judged by our works before we get to Heaven, though. And what, exactly, is the penalty, in Heaven, if our works are found to be wanting? Are you suggesting we suffer some kind of loss...in Heaven? That to me is a fairly untenable position to hold and for which I find no evidence in the Word of God. However, I do recognize that, given your theology, it is a necessary position for you to hold.

4) My Original Comments
And let me ask you this, Pastor: Was the Prodigal Son “saved” when he was in his father’s house at the beginning of the parable? Of course he was. He was in his father’s house. And, when he was given his share of the inheritance, wasn’t he in a “saved” state? I mean, for the Christian, what is our inheritance? Is it not salvation? Yet, the Prodigal Son loses his inheritance. How? Through sin. Then, when he repents and turns back to his father, what does the Word of God say? The father sees his son and says, “...for this my son was dead, and is alive AGAIN.” The son is alive “again”. Which means, he was alive (saved), dead (unsaved), alive again (saved). No OSAS in this parable. If OSAS is true, then the father would have said, “...for this my son was alive, and is still alive.”

Baptist Pastor
“I believe that this is a better interpretation of the parable [The Prodigal Son]: Humans were created to live in perfect union with God. We were created as sons and daughters of God. Sin entered into the world and the sons and daughters of God were now dead in their sin. Humans lost their inheritance due to their sin. Christ lived a perfect life, died on the cross for our sins, and raised from the dead to defeat sin and death. This made the inheritance available again. The Prodigal son repented of his sin and returned to the father. His father chose to accept him back into the family where he was always meant to be. The prodigal did nothing to earn his way back into the family...Funny enough, I would actually argue that this is a great example of OSAS. The prodigal was always the father's son. Nothing he did could change that fact. The son disowning the father never took away his sonship. ...”

John's Reply
First of all, you said: “I believe”. In other words, this is a personal, fallible interpretation that carries no authority with it. Secondly, you are interpreting the Parable of the Prodigal Son as being a parable about the creation, sin, fall, and redemption of the entire human race. What about those “hermeneutics” you have previously mentioned? The context of Luke 15 does not support such an interpretation. Each of the first two parables of that chapter end with the rejoicing in Heaven over “one” - singular - sinner who repents. The Prodigal Son is a parable about the individual sinner. It is not about the creation and fall and return of the human race to God as a whole.

Furthermore, you go on to state: “The prodigal son was always the father’s son. Nothing he did could change that fact.” Which, in your interpretation means the prodigal was once saved always saved. Well, first of all, you have now contradicted yourself. The first interpretation of the parable you put out there was that it is about how, “Humans lost their inheritance [perfect union with God] due to their sin.” “The sons and daughters of God were now dead in their sin,” you said. How can the parable be about humans losing their inheritance with the Father due to their sin and at the same time be about the prodigal son being once saved always saved? You are saying the parable is about both the sons and daughters of God losing their inheritance due to sin and about the prodigal son not losing his inheritance due to sin? How can it be both?

Secondly, even though you say that the prodigal son was always the father’s son, the parable states quite clearly that the father considered his son to be “dead”. What does it mean if the Heavenly Father considers you to be “dead”. If you are “dead” in the eyes of the Father, wouldn’t that mean you were in a state of being “unsaved”? So, in the parable, the Prodigal Son is first alive in his father’s house - saved. Then he leaves his father’s house, squanders his inheritance through sin, and is considered by his father to be dead - unsaved. Then, he repents and returns to the father, at which time the father declares him to be alive “again”. AGAIN! Which means he was alive (saved), dead (unsaved), and now alive again (saved again). There is absolutely no OSAS happening here. “Alive again” is a pretty difficult phrase for OSAS theology to overcome.

Strategy/Comments
Again, on full display, how Protestants have to come up with the craziest interpretations of Scripture in order to protect their doctrines from what Scripture actually says. Especially when it comes to OSAS! The OSAS crowd has absolutely no answer for John 15:1-6 nor the Parable of the Prodigal Son nor any of those other Bible passages I cited above, other than to twist Scripture into knots.

Closing Comments

I hope all of you have a great week. Seeing as how he is yet to respond to any of my reply - Parts 1, 2, 3, or 4 - we'll probably be closing out this conversation with the Baptist Pastor in the next newsletter.

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