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How NOT to Respond to Faith-Related Questions on Facebook
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How NOT to Respond to Faith-Related Questions on Facebook
General Comments
I'll be traveling to Alexandria, LA, this weekend for the Fullness of Truth Conference at St. Rita's Catholic Church. I'll be giving 3 talks - one on Friday night and two on Saturday. If you live anywhere in the general vicinity, I'd love to have you join us for the conference. For more information and/or to register: Fullness of Truth Registration.
Introduction
This week is more about what not to do, as opposed to what to do, when engaging in evangelization. I was looking at a thread on a particular Catholic Facebook forum the other day, and came across an egregious example of something that generally drives me nuts. Folks, when you are engaging someone about the Faith - particularly online where everything is written down - and they are presenting questions or arguments to you, you need to answer the questions or arguments that they are actually making and not the ones you "think" they are making. Do not "read between the lines" to answer something that they didn't actually ask. Read what they say, very carefully, and then respond to what is actually written.
I'm going to give you some examples of what I'm talking about regarding what NOT to do. Below is a short thread that appeared on a Facebook forum. The original post (OP) was asking, essentially, if Mary's Perpetual Virginity impacts our salvation and, if so, in what way. Five different Catholics responded. I'll give their responses below and will comment after each one of them.
Challenge/Response/Strategy
Original Post (OP)
A question was asked in another group I belong to (may not be entirely Catholic-friendly) regarding the perpetual virginity of Mary, which I understand to be "de fide." The question was: "Why is Mary being a perpetual virgin so important to the salvation of Catholics?"
This is the first time I've seen Mary's perpetual virginity tied directly to salvation. I certainly do believe Mary remained a virgin, but can someone explain how that fact impacts a person's salvation? Thank you.
Catholic #1
Our Lord Jesus is God. The omnipotent all knowing creator. He pre-ordained Mary's virginity because God is pure and perfect and holy beyond our understanding. How could God enter the human world in anyone less than pure and holy. Pure and holy remains always pure and holy. She models for us our own example of holiness.
My Comments
And that answer has absolutely nothing to do with the question that was asked in the OP. It seems Catholic #1 was answering the question: Why would Mary need to be a perpetual virgin? The question, however, was: How does Mary's perpetual virginity impact a person's salvation? Catholic #1's response in no way addressed the question as asked. Not helpful, as we'll see in the very next comment.
My Comments
And that answer has absolutely nothing to do with the question that was asked in the OP. It seems Catholic #1 was answering the question: Why would Mary need to be a perpetual virgin? The question, however, was: How does Mary's perpetual virginity impact a person's salvation? Catholic #1's response in no way addressed the question as asked. Not helpful, as we'll see in the very next comment.
Original Poster
Catholic #1 - thank you for your answer but that’s not really what I’m asking. How does Mary’s perpetual virginity relate to salvation? If, for the sake of argument, I didn’t believe in Mary’s perpetual virginity, I couldn’t be saved? That could keep me from heaven?
Catholic #2
Did Eve have anything to do with the Fall? Adam's disobedience brought about the Fall. Still. Eve had something to do with it. That accounts for the special punishment mentioned in Gen 3:16. You asked what Mary had to do with our salvation. Was her role in the Redemption necessary? NO. Eve's role in the Fall wasn't either.
My Comments
Catholic #2 takes a shot at it and...doesn't answer the question. Not only does he not answer the question, but his answer could actually be harmful to the faith of the Original Poster. Eve had just "something" to do with the Fall? Really? Yes, Adam was the one ultimately held responsible, but Eve had more than just "something" to do with it. It was through Eve that sin entered the world. Plus, I have to take great exception to his statement that Mary's role in the Redemption wasn't "necessary". Actually, it was. God chose to redeem the world by bringing His son into human history through the womb of a woman. Given that, Mary's role was absolutely necessary. Could God have chosen to redeem the world in another way? I suppose so, after all - He's God. So, in that respect, Mary's role isn't absolutely necessary - God could have chosen other means by which to redeem the world. But, He didn't.
Given that, then Mary's role in the redemption was indeed necessary. Which means, just as sin entered the world through a woman, so now salvation has entered the world through a woman. Catholic #2's answer completely disregards that fact. But, even moreso, Catholic #2's answer could be taken by the Original Poster in a way that could indeed impact his salvation. Again, the Original Poster asked: "If, for the sake of argument, I didn’t believe in Mary’s perpetual virginity, I couldn’t be saved?" Catholic #2's answer, which, again, downplays Mary's role in salvation, seems to say: "If you don't believe in the Perpetual Virginity of Mary, you can still be saved." Well, that may not actually be the case, as I'll explain in my summary comments below.
Here's the thing - when Catholic #2 says, "Was her role in the Redemption necessary? NO. Eve's role in the Fall wasn't either," he is doing something we should never do as Catholics. He is putting words in the Church's mouth. Has he ever seen, anywhere, an official Church document that states what he just stated? NO! He hasn't. It's not in the Catechism, it's not in Vatican II, it's not in any papal encyclical, it's not in any official magisterial document. Do not say something about Church teaching that the Church Herself does not say! Don't make things up! Don't ad lib! It can be dangerous to do so. When it comes to the dogma of the Perpetual Virginity of Mary, all Catholic #2 had to do was pick up a Catechism and read a few paragraphs, or go to newadvent.org and read the article there on Mary's Perpetual Virginity, or check one of any number of resources - and he would have seen that nowhere does the Church use the language he used...that Mary's role in the Redemption was not necessary.
And nowhere does the Church say Eve's role in the Fall wan't necessary. When it comes to explaining Catholic doctrine to non-Catholics - or even to Catholics - there is no need to confer magisterial status upon yourself and thus add your own two cents to the Church's teaching on any given doctrine.
My Comments
Catholic #2 takes a shot at it and...doesn't answer the question. Not only does he not answer the question, but his answer could actually be harmful to the faith of the Original Poster. Eve had just "something" to do with the Fall? Really? Yes, Adam was the one ultimately held responsible, but Eve had more than just "something" to do with it. It was through Eve that sin entered the world. Plus, I have to take great exception to his statement that Mary's role in the Redemption wasn't "necessary". Actually, it was. God chose to redeem the world by bringing His son into human history through the womb of a woman. Given that, Mary's role was absolutely necessary. Could God have chosen to redeem the world in another way? I suppose so, after all - He's God. So, in that respect, Mary's role isn't absolutely necessary - God could have chosen other means by which to redeem the world. But, He didn't.
Given that, then Mary's role in the redemption was indeed necessary. Which means, just as sin entered the world through a woman, so now salvation has entered the world through a woman. Catholic #2's answer completely disregards that fact. But, even moreso, Catholic #2's answer could be taken by the Original Poster in a way that could indeed impact his salvation. Again, the Original Poster asked: "If, for the sake of argument, I didn’t believe in Mary’s perpetual virginity, I couldn’t be saved?" Catholic #2's answer, which, again, downplays Mary's role in salvation, seems to say: "If you don't believe in the Perpetual Virginity of Mary, you can still be saved." Well, that may not actually be the case, as I'll explain in my summary comments below.
Here's the thing - when Catholic #2 says, "Was her role in the Redemption necessary? NO. Eve's role in the Fall wasn't either," he is doing something we should never do as Catholics. He is putting words in the Church's mouth. Has he ever seen, anywhere, an official Church document that states what he just stated? NO! He hasn't. It's not in the Catechism, it's not in Vatican II, it's not in any papal encyclical, it's not in any official magisterial document. Do not say something about Church teaching that the Church Herself does not say! Don't make things up! Don't ad lib! It can be dangerous to do so. When it comes to the dogma of the Perpetual Virginity of Mary, all Catholic #2 had to do was pick up a Catechism and read a few paragraphs, or go to newadvent.org and read the article there on Mary's Perpetual Virginity, or check one of any number of resources - and he would have seen that nowhere does the Church use the language he used...that Mary's role in the Redemption was not necessary.
And nowhere does the Church say Eve's role in the Fall wan't necessary. When it comes to explaining Catholic doctrine to non-Catholics - or even to Catholics - there is no need to confer magisterial status upon yourself and thus add your own two cents to the Church's teaching on any given doctrine.
Original Poster
Catholic #2 - actually, what I asked was did her perpetual virginity have anything to do with our salvation but I think you answered that
Catholic #2 - actually, what I asked was did her perpetual virginity have anything to do with our salvation but I think you answered that
My Comments
It looks as if he's taking Catholic #2's answer as being just what he said: Mary's role in the Redemption wasn't necessary. Therefore, the conclusion drawn is that her perpetual virginity doesn't have anything to do with our salvation, which means one can be saved even if they don't believe in it. Thin ice.
Catholic #1
Mary is a model of holiness for us. The purest and most perfect kind of holiness. Marys perpetual virginity is a dogma of our faith. We are obliged to believe in her perpetual virginity. We,as Catholics ,must believe all the doctrines given to us thru apostolic times and thru history and as our apostles understood the truths of the faith. All doctrines and dogmas are important. Our salvation depends on following the teachings of the Church..If 1 falls because we dont completely understand it, they all can fall... we cant pick and choose what is true,just because we dont completely understand. But we can seek understanding ,and ask the Holy Spirit to lead us to total understanding.
Original Poster
Catholic #1 - I don’t question the doctrine that teaches her perpetual virginity. As a Jewish believer, I know our Lord wouldn’t have entrusted his mother to John’s care if she had other children. It’s trying to understand how her virginity relates to our being saved. That’s the issue I’m having.
My Comments
My Comments
Catholic #1's comments are, essentially, correct; however, it is still not a direct answer to the Original Poster's question about how Mary's perpetual virginity impacts our salvation. To give Catholic #1 the benefit of the doubt, she seems to be implying that Mary's perpetual virginity/pureness/holiness serves as a model for the individual believer which could aid them in their struggle to achieve holiness, which would thus impact their salvation (Heb 12:14), or something along those lines. But, even there, the dots are not being connected - even indirectly - to his question. And, she is also correct in saying that, as Catholics, we have all the doctrines taught authoritatively by the Church. However, still not a direct response to his question about Mary's virginity. We have to answer the questions as asked - be direct, be succinct.
Fortunately, in this situation, the Original Poster, does indeed believe in Mary's perpetual virginity. But, he has still been given some bad information by Catholic #2 which could potentially undercut that belief in some way, shape, or form.
Fortunately, in this situation, the Original Poster, does indeed believe in Mary's perpetual virginity. But, he has still been given some bad information by Catholic #2 which could potentially undercut that belief in some way, shape, or form.
Catholic #3
I’ve often wondered the same thing. Why could being a married virgin beyond the birth of Jesus have an effect on the rest of the faithful?
Original Poster
Catholic #3 - I wish I knew. I know she had no other children. I believe she did remain a virgin. As you say why would that have an effect on the faithful? It in no way minimizes the crucial role she played by obeying God and giving birth to our Lord. However, how would whether or not she remained a virgin have any impact on our salvation?
Catholic #3 - I wish I knew. I know she had no other children. I believe she did remain a virgin. As you say why would that have an effect on the faithful? It in no way minimizes the crucial role she played by obeying God and giving birth to our Lord. However, how would whether or not she remained a virgin have any impact on our salvation?
Catholic #1
I answered you. She was " pure" - pure in body and pure of heart. A model for us all. We strive for purity. Her purity proves Christ is God. She is the tabernacle of God.
My Comments
Again, Catholic #1 seems to be saying that Mary serves as a model of holiness for us, which could help us achieve holiness - and thus salvation - and in that way her remaining a virgin impacts our salvation. But that still is not a direct answer to his question and still leaves a lot of work for him to make sense of her indirect answer. And she says something here that doesn't necessarily hold: "Her purity proves Christ is God." Well, how is that so? And where does the Church say such a thing?
And, we see Catholic #3 jumping in with basically the same question as the Original Poster. So, a catechetical opportunity here with more than just the one person, as is usually the case with threads on Facebook.
Catholic #4
My Comments
Again, Catholic #1 seems to be saying that Mary serves as a model of holiness for us, which could help us achieve holiness - and thus salvation - and in that way her remaining a virgin impacts our salvation. But that still is not a direct answer to his question and still leaves a lot of work for him to make sense of her indirect answer. And she says something here that doesn't necessarily hold: "Her purity proves Christ is God." Well, how is that so? And where does the Church say such a thing?
And, we see Catholic #3 jumping in with basically the same question as the Original Poster. So, a catechetical opportunity here with more than just the one person, as is usually the case with threads on Facebook.
Catholic #4
She was a vessel and Tabernacle. She is also called the ark of the new covenant. She had to be sinless. From original sin. Think about this. To stand in the presence of God you would have to be washed clean from sin. You couldn’t stand in the presence of God and have sin. So she was kept sinless. Like a child kept from a mud puddle kinda. Her interior life is beyond belief. Even though the angels were shown and some could not serve and were envious of her.
Original Poster
Catholic #4 - but how would that be essential to our salvation? Isn’t that what the sacrifice on the cross was for? Isn’t Jesus our mediator and redeemer?
My Comments
Catholic #4 jumps in and does nothing but muddy the waters. He throws in Mary's Immaculate Conception and sinlessness, as well as her being the New Testament fulfillment of the Ark of the Covenant. Why?! The question was about Mary's Perpetual Virginity! No one asked about her sinlessness or her being referred to as the Ark of the Covenant. Again, all of that is just muddying the waters in this instance. Don't be bringing in concepts, doctrines, etc. that are not part of the original question/argument! When you do that, you do nothing but take the conversation off onto a bunch of rabbit trails that lead nowhere except down a hole. Stick to the subject! When asked a question about the Faith, keep to that particular topic. The only other topic you should introduce is the concept of authority, as I have talked about many times.
Catholic #5
The Marian dogmas are about Christ more than Mary…it’s what Jesus ordained…I would suggest read more the ecumenical council documents regarding this dogma…Jesus Sanctified Mary’s Womb. Let’s go high theology here. Throughout the Old Testament, God gives strict instruction about the use and sanctity of holy vessels. In short, specific vessels have specific purposes and cannot be used for something else. The Ark of the Covenant, for example, was incredibly holy but was not an ordinary case. It held only sacred objects – a jar of manna, Aaron’s sprouted staff, the tablets of stone that contained the 10 Commandments (Hebrews 9:4). In addition to all of that, only certain people were allowed to be present before the Ark of the Covenant, and nobody was allowed to touch it, even to save it from falling (2 Samuel 6:6-7). When Mary bore Jesus in her womb, she carried the God of the Universe. Mary’s womb became sanctified and holy. While every human life is precious and worthy, Mary bearing another child in her womb after Jesus’ birth would have been counter to the purpose for which God destined Mary.
My Comments
NO! Let's not "go high theology here"! What purpose does that serve?! Another Catholic joins the discussion and does nothing but derail it. Even though he at least mentioned - in the last sentence - Mary's perpetual virginity, it doesn't matter because nothing - absolutely nothing - in his entire post actually addressed the question that was asked! Drives me crazy when I see posts like this. Answer the question, don't try to show off your knowledge of theology. Get to the point. If I were a Protestant, I could take what Catholic #5 said and go off in so many different directions that the conversation would, in very short order, become absolutely meaningless. Which would lead to a great deal of wasted time and a great deal of frustration.
Summary
Okay, a few lessons here:
1) Answer the questions that are asked. Do not read between the lines. Do not assume what they are "really" asking. Read the questions carefully and deliberately. Read them over a few times if necessary. Write out your answer. After doing that, go back and read the question again, then your answer, and see if your answer actually addresses the question - directly and succinctly.
2) Do not add to Church teaching. When explaining a Catholic doctrine or dogma, first read what the Church says about that doctrine/dogma in the Catechism or some other magisterial document. Then, when giving your explanation, it's okay to use your own words, but do not stray outside the boundaries of that teaching as given by the Church. Have you anywhere read in a magisterial document: "Eve's role in the Fall was not necessary?" No? Then don't say it! Have you anywhere read in a magisterial document: "Mary's role in the Redemption was not necessary?" No? Then don't say it! Have you anywhere read in a magisterial document: "Mary's purity proves Jesus is God?" No? Then don't say it!
3) Do not bring in topics that are extraneous to the question(s) asked or the arguments made. Talking about the Perpetual Virginity of Mary? Well, then, no need to bring up her Immaculate Conception, or her role as the Ark of the New Covenant, or her Assumption, or anything else along those lines. Doing so will only serve to delay you getting to the real heart of the matter - authority.
Finally, I mentioned that I would explain how not believing in the Perpetual Virginity of Mary could indeed impact your salvation. Two things to consider:
1) "Know the truth and the truth will make you free," (John 8:32). "For this I have come into the world, to bear witness to the truth. Every one who is of the truth hears My voice," (John 18:37). "I am the Way, and the Truth, and the Life," (John 14:6). In other words, truth is important to our salvation. The more truth we have, the more Jesus we have. Since the Perpetual Virginity of Mary is the truth, then knowing it helps us along our path to the fullness of Truth...Jesus Christ.
2) The Perpetual Virginity of Mary is not what one would consider a "core" doctrine of the faith. One can be a poorly catechized Catholic, and thus not know that Mary was a perpetual virgin, and still make it to Heaven. In other words, not knowing of Mary's perpetual virginity does not preclude one's salvation. Just so, if one is aware of the teaching of Mary's perpetual virginity, but does not believe in it - maybe they were raised Protestant and had never heard an argument on behalf of this teaching or some such thing - one may still be saved. God alone knows one's culpability in matters such as this. However, if one is Catholic, and has been taught about Mary's perpetual virginity, yet refuses to believe in it, then that person is a heretic. They have, essentially, denied the authority of the Church which is, in effect, denying the authority of Jesus Christ Himself. That is a mortal sin. And, if one dies in a state of mortal sin, then one goes to Hell.
So, Mary's perpetual virginity does not directly impact our salvation in the manner of, say, Jesus' death and Resurrection, or Baptism, or the Eucharist; however, denying the truth of Mary's perpetual virginity, in defiance of the Church's teaching, could indeed cause one to lose their salvation through mortal sin.
My Comments
NO! Let's not "go high theology here"! What purpose does that serve?! Another Catholic joins the discussion and does nothing but derail it. Even though he at least mentioned - in the last sentence - Mary's perpetual virginity, it doesn't matter because nothing - absolutely nothing - in his entire post actually addressed the question that was asked! Drives me crazy when I see posts like this. Answer the question, don't try to show off your knowledge of theology. Get to the point. If I were a Protestant, I could take what Catholic #5 said and go off in so many different directions that the conversation would, in very short order, become absolutely meaningless. Which would lead to a great deal of wasted time and a great deal of frustration.
Summary
Okay, a few lessons here:
1) Answer the questions that are asked. Do not read between the lines. Do not assume what they are "really" asking. Read the questions carefully and deliberately. Read them over a few times if necessary. Write out your answer. After doing that, go back and read the question again, then your answer, and see if your answer actually addresses the question - directly and succinctly.
2) Do not add to Church teaching. When explaining a Catholic doctrine or dogma, first read what the Church says about that doctrine/dogma in the Catechism or some other magisterial document. Then, when giving your explanation, it's okay to use your own words, but do not stray outside the boundaries of that teaching as given by the Church. Have you anywhere read in a magisterial document: "Eve's role in the Fall was not necessary?" No? Then don't say it! Have you anywhere read in a magisterial document: "Mary's role in the Redemption was not necessary?" No? Then don't say it! Have you anywhere read in a magisterial document: "Mary's purity proves Jesus is God?" No? Then don't say it!
3) Do not bring in topics that are extraneous to the question(s) asked or the arguments made. Talking about the Perpetual Virginity of Mary? Well, then, no need to bring up her Immaculate Conception, or her role as the Ark of the New Covenant, or her Assumption, or anything else along those lines. Doing so will only serve to delay you getting to the real heart of the matter - authority.
Finally, I mentioned that I would explain how not believing in the Perpetual Virginity of Mary could indeed impact your salvation. Two things to consider:
1) "Know the truth and the truth will make you free," (John 8:32). "For this I have come into the world, to bear witness to the truth. Every one who is of the truth hears My voice," (John 18:37). "I am the Way, and the Truth, and the Life," (John 14:6). In other words, truth is important to our salvation. The more truth we have, the more Jesus we have. Since the Perpetual Virginity of Mary is the truth, then knowing it helps us along our path to the fullness of Truth...Jesus Christ.
2) The Perpetual Virginity of Mary is not what one would consider a "core" doctrine of the faith. One can be a poorly catechized Catholic, and thus not know that Mary was a perpetual virgin, and still make it to Heaven. In other words, not knowing of Mary's perpetual virginity does not preclude one's salvation. Just so, if one is aware of the teaching of Mary's perpetual virginity, but does not believe in it - maybe they were raised Protestant and had never heard an argument on behalf of this teaching or some such thing - one may still be saved. God alone knows one's culpability in matters such as this. However, if one is Catholic, and has been taught about Mary's perpetual virginity, yet refuses to believe in it, then that person is a heretic. They have, essentially, denied the authority of the Church which is, in effect, denying the authority of Jesus Christ Himself. That is a mortal sin. And, if one dies in a state of mortal sin, then one goes to Hell.
So, Mary's perpetual virginity does not directly impact our salvation in the manner of, say, Jesus' death and Resurrection, or Baptism, or the Eucharist; however, denying the truth of Mary's perpetual virginity, in defiance of the Church's teaching, could indeed cause one to lose their salvation through mortal sin.
Closing Comments
Please keep me in your prayers as I travel to and from the conference in Alexandria - 6 hours on the road each way - and please pray that my voice holds out. I keep all of you, and your families, in my daily prayers.
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