Apologetics for the Masses #490 - The Modernist Response to the Eucharistic Congress

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Topic

The Modernist Response to the Eucharistic Congress

General Comments

Hey folks,

Two things:

1) Do any of you have contact information for one Allie Beth Stuckey? She is a high profile blogger/YouTuber/whatever for BlazeTV who recently had Mike Gendron on one of her programs - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6FZZGHlGgCE - and she was completely sucked in by his lies about the Catholic Church. So, I had a subscriber contact me to ask me if I could go on her program to defend Catholic teaching, but I haven't been able to come up with a direct way to contact her. I've sent a couple of messages to her through her website, but I doubt that she will respond to them. So, if any of you know of a way to contact her directly, please let me know. Thanks!

2) If you have any interest in attending my Blue Collar Apologetics seminar, but you're not anywhere close to the Birmingham area, maybe think about asking your priest, or your Knights of Columbus Council, or whoever, to see if they would sponsor me to come to your city. Essentially, the parish, or whoever the sponsor might be, would be responsible for just my expenses - travel, hotel, food - no speaking fee. However, I would charge those in attendance a fee. I haven't decided for sure what that would be, but probably something along the lines of $25 for one, $40 for two, and $50 for three or more from the same family.

So, if that sounds like something you might be interested in, please contact your pastor and talk to him about it. Or, if you happen to be a priest and would be interested in talking to me a bit more about my possibly coming to your parish, just shoot me an email: john@biblechristiansociety.com.

Introduction

This is the 3rd in the series of my newsletters that have focused on Modernism as it presents itself in the Catholic Church today. Modernism is alive and well in the Catholic Church. As I've previously stated, Modernists are frequently referred to as "liberal" Catholics. I prefer the term "heterodox" Catholics since I view the term "liberal" as belonging to the arena of politics.

Anyway, this issue of the newsletter centers around a Facebook post from one Brian Fraga, who writes for the National Catholic Reporter - a media organization that may have, at one time, deserved to be called "Catholic," but should now, in my opinion, be adjured by a bishop, or bishops, to drop the word "Catholic" from its name, because it quite often puts out stories, and opinion pieces, that contain content which is antithetical to Church teaching. Just to be clear, though, there was nothing at all to take issue with regarding this particular post by Mr. Fraga. It is the comments from folks posting in response to his original post (OP) that I am going to focus on. And, again, I have no hesitancy to keep many of the names just as they appear on Facebook because all the posts on Mr. Fraga's Facebook page are public - they are able to be seen by anyone and everyone, whether you are "Friends" with him or not.

Mr. Fraga's post was about the Eucharistic Procession through Indianapolis that occurred at the recent Eucharistic Congress. I'm going to let these folks speak for themselves, so that you can get a glimpse of the mindset of the Catholics who just cannot stand all things orthodox/traditional in the Catholic Church. I'll add in commentary here and there. My commentary will be in italics.

Challenge/Response/Strategy

My Commentary
The original post from Brian Fraga, which is immediately below, is accompanied by 4 pictures of scenes from just before the Eucharistic Procession through downtown Indianapolis got started. Two of the pictures had religious sisters in them. You could tell they were religious sisters because they were wearing habits.

Brian Fraga - National Catholic Reporter (Original Post)
July 20, 2024 - Scenes from the beginning of the large eucharistic procession today in downtown Indianapolis, which will end with benediction a mile away at the city’s war memorial.

Richard DB
To glorify war or speak out prophetically against it?

Michael Harank
Richard, that’s my question but given the repugnant, rampant nationalism among Catholics, I suspect it is to glorify war. The US bishops have always supported the exploitive and murderous US wars (with few exceptions among individual bishops) so why would this be different? They have not condemned as a body the USA sponsored and armed genocide in Gaza/Palestine to their everlasting shame. Many support the war in Ukraine. Billions of $ spent that rob the poor of basic human needs. The works of war are the opposite of the works of mercy/justice.

My Comments
"To glorify war or speak out prophetically against it?" Really?! How about a third option - to pray for the repose of the souls of those who have died in war? Or, maybe to pray for the end of war? Or both? Can we all agree that those would be good things? Why the immediate hostility to ending the Eucharistic Procession at a war memorial?

"The USA sponsored and armed genocide in Gaza/Palestine..." Okay, I have to say something about the use of the word "genocide" in regard to what the Israelis are doing in Gaza. I don't think Michael Harank knows what the word means. Either that, or he is ill informed as to how the Israelis are conducting their fight against Hamas. Genocide - the deliberate and systematic destruction of a group of people because of their ethnicity, nationality, or race. The Israelis are not trying to deliberately and systematically destroy the Palestinian Arabs a la what the Nazis did to the Jews during the Holocaust. If they were, they would have carpet bombed Gaza, the war would already be over, and there would be a million plus dead and injured. Far from it. In fact, the Israelis are actually calling and texting civilians telling them that they are in danger and they need to move before the bombs start falling. They are dropping leaflets telling the civilian population that the battle is headed their way and they need to get out, and even directing them to safe passages away from the danger zones. What army has ever done anything even remotely close to that?! That is not indicative of "genocide". That is indicative of an army going above and beyond what any army, anywhere, has ever done in an effort to try and minimize civilian casualties as it pursues the terrorists who invaded their country and killed and raped and maimed and kidnapped their people.

It is a terrible and sad thing that the war is occuring, but let's put it in perspective, shall we? What if, for instance, the drug cartels in Mexico all got together and sent thousands of their soldiers into southern Texas one morning - maybe into Laredo - and killed or wounded thousands of Americans - in the most horrible ways imaginable - cutting off the heads of even babies, burning people alive, raping hundreds of women, and then kidnapping hundreds of men, women, and children and taking them back to Mexico where they are then subjected to continued torture, rape, and mutilation? Let's say the President then sends the army after these monsters. But, the monsters hide among the civilian population. They place their supplies and ammunition dumps in and around civilian buildings such as hospitals and schools. They have a complex tunnel system with tunnels that begin and end in people's homes or in public buildings. They mount machine guns and rocket launchers on, in, and around civilian buildings and housing. What is our army to do? Should the President say, "Well, we don't want to risk escalation, and we don't want any civilians hurt, so, let's just let them go if they promise never to do anything like that again?" I don't think so!

It is Hamas that has chosen to hide like cowards amongst their own civilian population, knowing full well that they can use the deaths of their people as propaganda. Hamas has turned down several ceasefire proposals from the Israelis. Hamas are the ones who should be blamed for what is happening in Gaza right now. Any organization that would carry out such heinous attacks on a civilian population along the lines of what Hamas did, and then hide among their own civilian population knowing full well what the results will be, needs to be rendered incapable of ever being able to carry out such actions again. Hamas cares not for anyone, even their own people. And the Israelis have the right to insure that their people are safe and secure in their own homes. So, again, it is an awful and horrible situation, but it is a situation in which the Israelis have been given little choice but to do what they are doing in order to insure the safety of their own people. But, it is not "genocide" in any way, shape, or form.

Sally Scuderi
Michael Harank TY for this comment, Michael.

Dan Conway
10% of the audience Philly had in 2014. 3-4% of the audience of the Very Very Vatican 2 era international Congress in Philly in 1976. Seems anemic.

My Comments
Dan is trying to throw shade on this Eucharistic Congress in Indianapolis by comparing it to something that happened in Philadelphia in 2014 and also to another event in Philadelphia in 1976. I think the first reference, though, is actually to the World Meeting of Families that was in Philadelphia in 2015, not 2014, which had a few hundred thousand people attend. The thing is, though, why do that? Is he trying to say the Eucharistic Congress in Indianapolis was an abject failure because it didn't compare in size to the Philadelphia event? I don't see how one could ever say that 60,000+ people gathered to hear talks about the Eucharist and to worship Christ in the Eucharist can ever be described as a failure. Notice, though, what he's trying to do with his comparison to the "Very Very Vatican 2 era" international Congress in Philly in 1976. The "Very Very Vatican 2 era" - i.e., Modernist/Liberal (in his eyes) - event dwarfed in size the oh so "conservative" event in Indianapolis. That means, of course, that the "liberals" way outnumber the "conservatives," which, apparently, gives him some sort of solace that his attitudes and beliefs are, at least in his eyes, the dominant - thus correct - position in the church.

Margaret Susan Thompson
All the sisters there seem to be in veils and traditional habits. OK. Not what I think of when I think of the People of God.

My Comments
I had to laugh when I read Margaret Susan Thompson's comments - as if you could tell a woman is a religious sister by her clothing if she's not wearing a habit?! That's one of the purposes of the habit, to set oneself apart from the world exteriorly as well as interiorly. How on earth could you tell someone was a religious if she's not wearing a habit? Could you tell a man was a priest if he wasn't wearing a collar or any kind of clerical garb? Of course not. What a ridiculous comment to make. And, it's not what she thinks of when she thinks of the "People of God"? Who cares?! Is what she thinks of in regard to the People of God more relevant than what I, or anyone else, think of in regard to the People of God? (I'll have more to say about Margaret Susan Thompson below.)

S.B.
Margaret Susan Thompson - If there are Sisters of Providence or Benedictines or Franciscans - our local orders - you likely would not be able to tell by what they are wearing. {Because they don't wear habits! And what do you want to bet that those orders she mentions are populated with predominantly, if not exclusively, women with gray hair?}

Margaret Susan Thompson
Nor here. But these are the ones center stage at the event—including speakers.

S.B.
Margaret Susan Thompson the consecrated virgins are staying at our local retreat house.

Margaret Susan Thompson
S.B. - ugh

Carole Chernecky
Margaret Susan Thompson - ugh here as well

Kevin Waldron
S.B. - Living Gospel Values Is Not About Participating In Lopsided Unequal Silos Of Arcane Archaic Cultic Practices.

Richard Ferrara
Margaret Susan Thompson - holy pretentious for 21st century indeed

My Comments
Consecrated virgins are "ugh"? Really?! Do you see how, over and over and over again, these people just cannot stand folks who believe and experience their faith differently than they - the Modernists - do? They don't just have the attitude of, "Well, that's fine for them, but that's not really my thing." No! These very tolerant, open-minded, loving, and spiritually mature people simply cannot let others - i.e., those horrible "conservatives" - experience the faith as they wish to experience it. They have to deride and ridicule consecrated virgins, as well as the Eucharistic Congress, and anything else that smacks of being non-"Very Very Vatican 2 era" Catholicism. Oh the horror of anyone who wishes to in any way, shape, or form practice pre-Vatican II Catholicism!

Consecrated virgins are being "holy pretentious"? They are not "Living Gospel Values" by "Participating In Lopsided Unequal Silos of Arcane Archaic Cultic Practices"? What do you want to bet that Kevin Waldron has a degree in Theology from a "Catholic" university? He uses big words to spew out what is, essentially, gibberish. And, of course, he is the arbiter of what does or does not constitute "living Gospel values". Modernist through and through.

S.M.C.
Margaret Susan Thompson - I like the traditional veils I think it’s cool. I traveled with a Sister in habit and veil across Texas before and people got teary eyed seeing her. She stood out. They knew what she was and it meant a lot to them. Also we ate free a lot! lol!

My Comments
What?! A voice of reason? A voice of sanity? Well, we can't let that go unchallenged, can we?

Margaret Susan Thompson
S.M.C. - Fine. But religious life is not performative.

S.M.C.
Margaret Susan Thompson - Of course not. But it can be a ministry right? To be a beautiful symbol to people.

Margaret Susan Thompson
That is not what ministry is.

My Comments
The Modernist Way - I will tell you what is or is not authentic ministry and how it is to be presented to the people. I will tell you what is or is not an authentic experience of faith. I will tell you what is or is not the way to live gospel values. I will tell you what is or is not an authentic verse from Scripture and whether or not Jesus actually said what the Bible says He said. My experiences of the faith are the only valid experiences of faith. My knowledge of the faith and all things related to it is the only valid knowledge of same. I tell ya what, it must be nice to be so far beyond the rest of us...

Margaret Susan Thompson
And a performative event like this [the Eucharistic Congress] is not reflective of most women religious — and their actual ministry — in the US.

Margaret Susan Thompson
S.M.C. - I wrote this awhile back. https://www.globalsistersreport.org/.../nuns-habits...
"Of nuns, habits, chainsaws, and why the combination is less than 'nuntastic'"
GLOBALSISTERSREPORT.ORG

My Comments
Margaret Susan Thompson, and the article she mentions above - "Of Nuns, Habits, Chainsaws, and Why the Combination Is Less Than Nuntastic" - which she wrote, will be the subject of my next newsletter. And that will wrap up this series on Modernists. These people are a trip. They need a whole lot of prayer...and healing. So much anger! I would recommend that they go to Eucharistic Adoration every now and then, but that is so pre-Vatican II.

J.H.R.
May the Congress bear fruit through the participants returning to their parishes to serve Jesus in the Poorest of the Poor

My Comments
What?! Another voice of reason? Gotta shut that down...

Rebecca Bratten Weiss
Based on my reading of the gospels I can't imagine God being at all pleased with the ostentatious posturing associated with this event.

Richard Ferrara
Rebecca Bratten Weiss - Well stated indeed

Alan Schneider
Rebecca Bratten Weiss - Prolly not

Kevin Waldron
An Odd Ostentatious SideShow… Meanwhile, In Real Time The US Engages Attitudes Actions/Inactions Antithetical To Good News Discipleship Grind On Perpetuating Poverty, Warmongering Genocide, Unjust Inequality, Amoral Avarice, Sinful Inhospitality, Grotesque Hypocrisies, Etc… To Our Collective Shame For Allowing Hollow Impotent Distractions Which Subvert Being/Becoming An Actual Eucharistic People.

My Comments
I'm tellin' ya...Kevin Waldron has to have a Theology degree. He has the Modernist nothingspeak down to an art form. Notice, though, how he's referring to the Eucharistic Congress as a "hollow impotent distraction"? "An Odd Ostentatious Side Show"? This stuff boggles my mind. Can you believe in the Real Presence and say such a thing about the Eucharistic Congress? I don't see how. Don't get me wrong, I'm not real thrilled with the bishops in regard to pretty much anything they do. In my mind, they - as a group and as individual bishops (not all, but most) - have lost their ability to speak with any kind of moral authority. They are, in many ways, moral cowards. They are afraid to stick their necks out, but they are oh so happy to take money from the government to line their coffers (or maybe to buy their silence). But, this Congress they, essentially, got right. The Eucharistic "Processions" that came from the 4 corners of the country to Indianapolis, they essentially got right. They still don't, as far as I can tell, have any kind of systematic plan for evangelization and for addressing the toilet of moral disgust that we call our "culture," and they don't really have much of a follow up plan for the Congress, but what they did here is far better than anything else I've seen them do since I came back into the Church in the late 80's.

"Rebecca Bratten Weiss: Based on my reading of the gospels I can't imagine God being at all pleased with the ostentatious posturing associated with this event." And, of course, we all know that her reading of the gospels is the absolute correct reading of the gospels. But, you know, she's right if you think about it - Jesus never gathered crowds together for the purpose of educating them in the faith, did He? And there's no way He would want anyone worshipping Him. Yep, she must be reading the same gospels I'm reading. And, of course, she knows best what does or does not please God.

Mark DeFrancisis
This is what a navel gazing church looks like...

Richard Ferrara
Pageantry but not terribly practical to daily contemporary life. Romanticized imagery of the past by decades and centuries.

My Comments
Modernists to the core!

FYI: This next post is what I posted on this particular Facebook thread in response to all of these other comments.

John S. Martignoni (Posted on FB)
You are all soooo right! Nuns in habits acting as walking billboards for a life dedicated to Christ...what horrible people! A whole conference dedicated to celebrating and promoting the Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist...how much more out of touch and ostentatious can they get?! I mean, what does Jesus in the Eucharist have to do with contemporary life? C'mon, man! Eucharistic adoration? Really?! What does that have to do with feeding the poor?! I can't imagine God being pleased with all these people at this gathering telling people that it pleases God to worship Him in the Eucharist? I mean, who is so audacious as to speculate as to what does or does not please God?

What a travesty of injustice that bears little or no resemblance to the non-archaic movements within the People of God that suffer so rightly to bring forth the actual presence of the Divine within all peoples who strive to share the gifts of their discipleship with those whose lives echo THE life as authentically lived in millions upon millions throughout the millennia! Be the wind...

My Comments
And, no one posted anything after that. I just could not take their whining any longer! The last paragraph above is my attempt at Modernist nothingspeak. The last sentence - "Be the wind..." - is one of my favorite things I have ever heard from a priest. Many years back, I signed up to be a lector at my parish. So, I had to go to a lector training session at the parish one Saturday morning. There were about a dozen or so people there. The Associate Pastor of the parish ran the training session. He was a young priest fresh out of seminary. Thoroughly Modernist. He had all of us come up and read the passage from Acts 2 about Pentecost and the presence of the Holy Spirit being "like the rush of a mighty wind". Well, after we had all read and had him comment on how we did, he got up to show us the "right" way to do it. And he read the passage with a bit of drama in his reading...too much so, actually. After he finished, he told us that we need to "enter into the passage when we read it". Uh huh. And then he said it. He said, "Be the wind." I thought I was going to fall out of my pew. "Be the wind..." So, hey, folks...go out there and "Be the wind..."

To summarize, the Modernists do not like much of anything that smacks of being "pre-Vatican II". I once brought up a 1930's encyclical at a parish council meeting and was promptly told by the parish DRE, "That's pre-Vatican II!" As if to say, "It is no longer valid." I responded by saying, "Well, the Bible is pre-Vatican II...do we still go by that? Oh, and Jesus was pre-Vatican II. Do we still listen to Him?"

For all of these people to take an event which had the worship of Jesus Christ in the Eucharist at its heart - an event that none of them even attended - and do their best to ridicule it and tear it down, is absolutely pathetic. But, that is the Modernist way. Tear down. Destroy. Ridicule. If it's not the way we do it, then it shouldn't be done.

Closing Comments

I hope all of you have a great week!

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