Apologetics for the Masses #487 - Do's and Don'ts for Evangelization via Facebook/Email

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Topic

Things not to do when engaging in online evangelization.

General Comments

Hey folks,

Two things:

1) One last reminder, for those of you in the Birmingham area, I will be debuting a "Blue Collar Apologetics" weekend retreat at my parish - St.Theresa's in Leeds - this coming Friday evening, August 23rd, and Saturday morning, August 24th. The times will be 6:30 - 8:30 PM on Friday, the 23rd, and 9:00 - 11:30 AM on Saturday, the 24th. I will talk about rules to follow and pitfalls to avoid when engaging in apologetics. You'll leave the weekend more comfortable with the idea of engaging in conversations about the Faith with family members, friends, co-workers, and so on, and more confident in your ability to do so.

To "register" for the weekend, just go to Blue Collar Retreat Weekend Registration and make a donation of $10/person. If you are coming with family members it's $10 for one of you, $20 for two, and $25 for 3. Any over 3 per family are free. Space is limited, so register sooner rather than later. And, very important, when you register, either include a note with the donation that it is for the retreat weekend, or shoot me an email immediately after you register to let me know. My email address is: john@biblechristiansociety.com.

2) Every so often I give you guys a heads up about an organization I've come across that I think some of you might be interested in. Well, here's another one: Kondracki Advisory Investment Management. One of the principals of the group, Tom, is a devout Catholic and a supporter of the Bible Christian Society. Tom worked for years in the financial services field before he eventually got together with some other folks and started their own firm so that they can run it the way they would like. In particular, no investments in any companies that participate in activities that are morally questionable. I like what they're doing so much that I am in the process of moving my retirement fund, such as it is, over to their company. So, if you're interested in finding some folks that can help you manage your money, build up a nest egg for retirement, and whatever else you have in mind for your family's future, please read the announcement below about Kondracki and an upcoming "Faith, Family, and Finance" virtual seminar they will be presenting on September 4th:

-----------------------------

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To register for our "Faith, Family, and Finance" seminar, go to: Faith, Family, and Finance Virtual Seminar

Introduction

I do a decent amount of evangelizing on social media - Facebook, in particular (and on other platforms in the not-too-distant future). Most of that evangelizing is either on my "John Martignoni and the Bible Christian Society" page, or on pages run by Protestants who are trying to "save" Catholics from the "darkness of Romanism"! In the process of dialoguing/debating/arguing with Protestants on Facebook, I'll see the posts from a lot of other Catholics - whether on my page or on the Protestant-run pages. And, quite often, I'll see these Catholics post things that just leave me shaking my head.

And, as you know from reading these newsletters, I do quite a bit of evangelization via email with Protestants. Plus, I have a number of Catholics who will email me their dialogues with Protestants and ask for my evaluation of what they've done and/or ask for my help with those dialogues. Once again, I see things in these dialogues that leave me shaking my head.

Given that, what I thought I would do in this newsletter is to point out some basic rules for evangelization via the electronic "airwaves" - social media, email, etc. At the outset, though, I want to point out that these "rules" I'm laying out here are my opinion. I never claim that my way of doing things is absolutely the best way to do something, so feel free to disagree with any or all of what I say here. But, what I will say, is that my opinion on these things is based on my interactions with literally thousands of Protestants over the last 25 years. 25 years over which - if I may be somewhat self-promotional here - I have a decent track record of helping folks come closer to, and a number of times into, the Faith. Plus, I have testimonial after testimonial of people using my techniques and strategies to help bring home their fallen-away family members, or to just out and out convert various family members and friends. Not to mention helping Catholics deepen their understanding of the Faith. All by the grace of God.

So, I'm going to give just a few examples from recent Facebook conversations I've seen and, basically, just critique what transpired in those conversations and draw some lessons...some rules...from them with the intent of helping you become better online evangelists. Let me know if any of this seems familiar to you.

I'll reproduce the Facebook conversations, but with my comments interspersed throughout. (You'll see my posts - as "John S. Martignoni" - that are part of the Facebook conversations. My "comments" for this newsletter will be clearly marked as "Comments" and they will be in italics to show that they are not part of the original conversation.)

Challenge/Response/Strategy

Facebook Conversation #1 - This was posted on the Feast of the Assumption.

Catholic1 - Original Post (OP) [Along with a beautiful portrayal of the Assumption]
“At the end of her earthly life [she] was assumed body and soul into the glory of Heaven.” - Pope Pius XII

What this doctrine means is that at the end of Mary’s life, her body was not allowed to decompose or become corrupt. It was assumed into heaven along with her soul. This is not the same as Christ’s Ascension into heaven. Christ ascended into heaven by His own power and will. Mary was assumed into heaven through the will and power of God.

http://wcucatholic.org/the-assumption-of-the-blessed.../

Protestant
I’m not arguing with you, I’m just wondering what scripture supports this?

Catholic1
Glad you asked. Here is a good video that might help:
https://youtu.be/PFc0Jndw-ng?si=x4TpjEbNavu0dVYv
Protestants Are Wrong About Mary's Assumption. Here's Why:

My Comments
Catholic1's OP was good. A beautiful picture of Mary being assumed into Heaven accompanied by appropriate explanatory verbiage. But, the response to Protestant wasn't so hot. Protestant asks for Scripture. What does Catholic1 do? Catholic1, instead of just giving some Scripture, says to watch a video. And, that particular video is around 58 minutes long. Now, that may be an absolutely bang up video about the Assumption. And, the video may contain every conceivable Scripture passage that could be used as evidence of the Assumption. But, Protestant has to first watch the video. And what are the odds of that happening? Probably not good. Plus, if the Protestant does watch the video, chances are they will only watch a few minutes of it. In other words, Catholic1 did not give Protestant a direct answer to Protestant's question. And, the answer Catholic1 did give, put the onus on Protestant to, essentially, do almost an hour's worth of research to get an answer to their question.

Rule 1 - Do not make Protestants do a lot of work in order to get answers to their questions. Try, at first, to keep everything in the realm of the Bible. No videos. No Catechism. No papal encyclicals. Make it as simple on them as possible. I'm assuming that there were some scriptural references for Mary's Assumption in the video Catholic1 cited. What Catholic1 should have done is gone through that video, made note of the those verses, and then simply given those verses in their reply to Protestant's question.

Continuing the Facebook Conversation
Catholic2
Does the Bible say all things and truths are in the Bible.

My Comments
First of all, before you post anything, re-read it and make sure it makes logical and grammatical sense. All of you know what Catholic2 is asking, but they did a poor job of framing their question. Catholic2 was asking: Where in the Bible does it say everything Christians need to believe is in the Bible? It was a Sola Scriptura question. Which, in and of itself, is a legitimate question to ask. But not here, and not like that. Protestant asked a question about Mary's Assumption and the Bible. Any Catholic responding to Protestant, at least at the beginning of the conversation, needs to establish the precedent for the conversation that direct answers are given to direct questions. That way, when you ask a question, you can expect a direct answer to your question - you probably won't get one, but you can expect it and you can demand it, if you have set the precedent. Work your way into the conversation about Sola Scriptura and authority and so forth. But, first, answer the question. Especially when there is a relatively easy answer to the question. If you don't know the answer to the question, go look it up!

Rule #2 - Establish the precedent of giving direct answers to direct questions. Once you give an answer to a question, then feel free to ask a question or two of your own and, having established the precedent, you are entitled to expect direct answers to your questions.

Continuing the Facebook Conversation
John S. Martignoni
In Revelation 12:1-5, we see a woman in Heaven. Scripture speaks of her head and feet, specifically, and it also mentions that she is "clothed" - i.e., she has a body. It also says that this woman is the mother of the male child who is to rule all nations with a rod of iron. That male child is Jesus. So, a woman, in Heaven, with a body and not just a soul, and she is Jesus' mother.

My Comments
Direct scriptural answer to Protestant's question. Didn't even need to quote the verses. You want the Protestant to open their Bible and read it for themselves. Didn't even mention Mary's name. Don't have to give some big explanation of the verses either. Actually, didn't have to give any explanation at all. My entire response to Protestant could have just been: "Revelation 12:1-5". They asked, "What scripture supports this?" Answer: Revelation 12:1-5. I might have to do some more explaining in a follow up response, but in your initial reply, keep it relatively short and simple. Assume, in a situation like this, that you will have the opportunity for follow up, which means you don't have to try to "prove" the Catholic position with massive explanations right off the bat. In this response, I wanted to whet Protestant's appetite...stir their curiosity just a bit. I wanted them to go read that passage and then to come back with a question about, or counter-argument to, my citing of that passage. By not hitting them with everything right off the bat, I can hopefully keep them engaged and draw them into a deeper conversation - not just about the Assumption, but about authority, which is the conversation you always want to get to.

What I've done here, by giving just the bare minimum of an answer to their question - and basically assuming that Protestant will, of course, see that Mary is the woman in Revelation 12 - is make it so that Protestant will come back to me with questions and/or counter-arguments. I want them asking me questions so that I can then ask them questions. The more questions they ask, the more questions I get to ask.

Rule #3 - You don't have to explain everything about a given topic right out of the gate. By not trying to explain everything all at once, you set it up so that the Protestant will come back to you with questions, which is exactly what you want. Unless you know for sure that you have one shot and one shot only, then plan for an extended conversation and frame your responses accordingly.

Continuing the Facebook Conversation
Catholic1
I would also read the Early church Fathers, the Orthodox/Coptic believers.
Ex: According to St. John of Damascus, the Roman emperor Marcian requested the body of Mary, mother of God, at the Council of Chalcedon in 451.
St. Juvenal, who was bishop of Jerusalem, told the emperor that “Mary died in the presence of all the Apostles but that her tomb, when opened upon the request of St. Thomas, was found empty; wherefrom the Apostles concluded that the body was taken up to heaven,” the saint recorded.

Catholic1
Theotokos or “God-bearer,” is the first fruits of the eschatological fulfillment that will bring all of God’s creative and redeeming work to a close. She is the vessel in which the Second Person of the Holy Trinity “took flesh” and became (a) man, in order to bestow salvation on the human race. Her womb, “more spacious than the heavens,” contained the uncontainable One. He drew his human existence from her, and she accompanied Him with love and prayer throughout the time of His earthly ministry, even to the foot of the Cross. She shared His suffering to the full, bearing His crucifixion and death in the depths of her soul. Accordingly, she is the perfect image of the Church, the eternal communion of all those who live and die in Christ.
They, like her, will be raised in Him and exalted to the same glory to which He raised and transformed their fallen human nature. She is thus a forerunner of their salvation, a prophetic image of the glorified life that awaits all those who bear Christ in the inner depths of their being, as she bore Him within the depths of her womb.
Yet she is more than this. She is not only a model of the common destiny of Christian people. She also accompanies them at every step of their journey, offering them—offering us—her incessant prayer and love.”
Father John Breck

Catholic1
I love that you are asking questions. ?? I have read a lot of official Catholic documents, councils, Early Church Fathers writings, early historical art portrayals and catechism when I came across a topic that I objected to. It was a lot of study for both of us and we had a lot of objections when first started questioning and digging.
In case you would like to read the official letter referenced: http://www.vatican.va/.../hf_p-xii_apc_19501101...
VATICAN.VA
Munificentissimus Deus (November 1, 1950) | PIUS XII

Catholic1
You might also enjoy historical music. The oldest known him about Theotokos (Mary) AD200-250
https://open.spotify.com/episode/0lpfZ1UeGklKbdmi6zksOG...

My Comments
Protestant asked for Scripture, they're being hit with multiple responses in which they are being told to watch a video, research the Early Church Fathers, listen to some ancient music, read a papal encyclical, and they are given given a very nice - but exceedingly Catholic - quote from a priest about "Theotokos" and "eschatological fulfillment", and so on. It's along the lines of a math student asking their teacher a question about a trigonometry problem and the teacher saying, "Here, you can borrow these books I have on Integral Calculus, Linear Algebra, and Euclidean Geometry to look up the answer yourself."

Essentially, Catholic1 just opened the door for Protestant to go in any number of directlions with this conversation, that is, if they even have the desire to pursue it any further. Do not overwhelm Protestants with information. You want to keep the conversation tight and controlled and focused. You want to get to a point, as quickly as possible, where you can start leading the conversation down the path to the central question...the question of authority. You don't want to start talking - especially at the beginning of a conversation with a Protestant - about the Church Fathers or Church Councils and such. Protestants don't necessarily care about the Church Fathers, or the Councils of the Church, or what any given priest - or bishop or pope - has to say about anything. All of that could maybe be introduced down the line somewhere, if necessary. Right now, though, they just want to know: Where is that in the Bible? So tell them! And, again, if you don't know...look it up.

Rule #4 - Do not overload Protestants with information. The more you say, the more opportunity they have of derailing the conversation.
Rule #5 - Stick to the Bible. There may eventually be a place to bring in the Church Fathers or Church Councils and the like, depending on how the conversation develops, but, for the most part, stay with Scripture...as well as logic and common sense. Remember, the Bible is a Catholic book.

To conclude: All of the references given by Catholic1 are solid. But, at this stage of the conversation they are unnecessary and possibly counter-productive.

===============================================

Facebook Conversation on No Salvation Outside of the Church (this is a segment from that conversation)
Catholic1
Mr. Protestant, I’m afraid you don’t know how to understand the scriptures because you have not been taught them by the Catholic Church, which is the pillar and foundation of truth. Pope Peter wrote infallibly that if you are not taught the scriptures you will distort them, 2 Peter 3:15. Are you calling the Holy Spirit a liar when he had Pope Peter write his two epistles? The bible does teach. To teach means to have interaction, someone that can say yes, you got that right and who can say you git wrong, someone who’s been taught by the Church that can elaborate and explain. In the Church/body not everyone is a teacher, 1 Cor 12. Saint James says not everyone should teach, Jame3:1. What part do you want to know? The Church is the body of Christ. Salvation is through Christ alone; therefore, salvation outside the Church there is no salvation because the Church is the body if Jesus and there is no salvation outside of Jesus. John 3:3,5 you must be born again to enter heaven. Baptism is the meaning here in verse 3,5. What is not biblical, Mr. Protestant? Your table of contents is not in the scriptures, yet you accept it. So you accept it through a 19th century tradition of men. Interesting….. you always want things explicitly proven by the scriptures except the biblical canon, the most important because without that, you can’t quote scripture because you don’t know what is and is not! That’s being hypocritical of you! How about obeying Heb 13:17. "Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account," Notice there us no verse that says obey your own understanding of the Bible. Or you must prove it explicitly from the bible! Jesus instituted his Catholic Church to teach us, he did not hand out bibles! Bishop Ignatius, ordained by Pope Peter, taught by Saint John, died as a martyr, this is what he died for!

Ignatius of Antioch
“Let no one do anything of concern to the Church without the bishop. Let that be considered a valid Eucharist which is celebrated by the bishop or by one whom he ordains [i.e., a presbyter]. Wherever the bishop appears, let the people be there; just as wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church” (Letter to the Smyrneans 8:2 [A.D. 110]).

My Comments
This post is a disaster. It's a rant, as opposed to a serious response to any questions/arguments that have been made. Absolutely useless to tell a Protestant that they don't understand the Scriptures because they haven't been taught them by the Catholic Church. To which the Protestant can reply, "Nuh uh...you don't understand the Scriptures because you were taught them by the Catholic Church." Saying the Catholic Church is the "pillar and foundation of truth" does you what good when you just sort of throw it out there attached to nothing? "Pope Peter wrote infallibly that if you are not taught the scriptures you will distort them, 2 Peter 3:15." First of all, he got the wrong verse. He meant 2 Peter 3:16. Secondly, his claim as to what that verse says is not quite accurate. He also meant to say that the Bible "doesn't" teach. But, that's wrong, because it does indeed teach. And the rest of what he says is equally disjointed. He's trying to respond to a few different things the Protestant said, but he does so in a very haphazard and, again, disjointed way. There is no flow, no rythym, no consistency to his response. The whole thing is out of kilter. And then he closes with a quote from a Church Father who, I guarantee, the Protestant doesn't give a rip about. It's as if he's so angry that he's just sort of spitting things out in an emotional reaction. How is a person to respond to that?

Rule #6 - Always re-read what you write before you post/send it. Make sure it is intelligible. It doesn't have to be the prose of Shakespeare or the poetry of Tennyson, but it should have a certain logical and common sensical flow to it. And, it should have a definitive direction that it is heading in.

Rule #7 - Before posting/sending a response, ask yourself: "How would I respond to this?" Put yourself in the shoes of the Protestant. Am I assuming things in what I'm saying, that the Protestant will deny by simply not assuming them? E.g., "The Catholic Church is the pillar and foundation of truth." Well, actually, the Bible says the "church" is the pillar and foundation of the truth (1 Tim 3:15), not the "Catholic" church. The Protestant can simply say, "Nope, that's not the Catholic Church." And you've gone nowhere. You haven't advanced the conversation...at all. If the Protestant is given the opportunity to ignore what you say, he will do just that.

Rule #8 - Double check your scriptural citations.

Continuing the Facebook Conversation
Mr. Protestant
I asked for a bible verse and you give me the 12 step to Roman religion salvation..
Bible says...John 1:12-13 (KJV) But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. I was referring to normal conditions under normal truth...I follow after peace...my peace is in Christ Jesus and if that is not what you think is right then you must be a hater of the truth
By the way your religion does not even guarantee salvation.

My Comments
Mr. Protestant simply brushed aside everything Catholic1 posted. And, he can't really be accused of ignoring what Catholic1 said because, as I mentioned above, his post was so disjointed it was basically impossible to respond to in a concise and rational manner.

Continuing the Facebook Conversation
Catholic1
Mr. Protestant, how many times do you have to have this explained to you? You smear the church with your nasty “Roman religion”. It is the Catholic Church for the thousandth time! Since the Catholic Church is the body of Christ and there is no salvation outside of Jesus; then there is no salvation outside the Catholic Church. Now, let’s unpack that for you! In order to enter the body of Christ you must be born again. If you are born again, you are attached to the Catholic Church, thus a person not on the Catholic role lost can be saved, it’s just harder because they were have not received the sacraments God would like us to have that he gives them through his ministers in the Church. ? If a person is invisibly ignorant that the Catholic Church is the Church Jesus wants him in, he has a chance of going to heaven.Baptism is the normative means of becoming born again.

2 other ways a person can become born again, though,n they are not the normative ways. Baptism by desire: if a person is invincible, ignorant of the normal means to be born again, but desires to be born again, and seek God the best way they know how God can baptize that person does making the person born again. Baptism by blood: person who dies as a martyr for the faith. For no greater love is that of one who lays her life down for another. Person put a gun to your head and says you believe in Jesus Christ and his faith and you say yes and they kill you you immediately go to heaven? So, Mr. Protestant, do you want to be nasty and resort to your old ways using slurs against the Catholic Church? You look foolish again, you know under the Catholic Church there are 21 rites, which the Roman Catholic is just one rite under the Catholic Church. Grow up, stop your nasty ways!

Heb 12:14
Strive for peace with everyone, and for that holiness without which no one will see the Lord.
Your nasty ways is definitely not try to be respectful, I am calling you out again!

You better start repenting, I am sure Gods is not happy with your nasty talk towards Catholics who love Jesus!

My Comments
Again, Rule #6. "Invisibly" ignorant? "...not on the Catholic role lost can be saved?" What? I know what he's trying to say, but I can guarantee the Protestant has no clue. And no Scripture verses given. Also, Catholic1 is allowing Mr. Protestant to get under his skin with his "nasty talk" about Catholics and the Church. And why bring up "Baptism of Desire" and "Baptism of Blood"?! Absolutely no reason to do so. You're just giving him incentive to take off in any number of directions.

Rule #9 - Stay calm when discussing the faith.

Rule #10 - Stay focused. Do not introduce concepts into a conversation - other than the concept of authority - that the Protestant has not brought up. All that does is give them an opportunitiy to stray away from the main body of the conversation and go down any number of rabbit trails.

Continuing the Facebook Conversation
Catholic2
Mr. Protestant, Here's some of what the Church actually teaches: 838 "The Church knows that she is joined in many ways to the baptized who are honored by the name of Christian, but do not profess the Catholic faith in its entirety or have not preserved unity or communion under the successor of Peter."Those "who believe in Christ and have been properly baptized are put in a certain, although imperfect, communion with the Catholic Church." With the Orthodox Churches, this communion is so profound "that it lacks little to attain the fullness that would permit a common celebration of the Lord's Eucharist."

"Outside the Church there is no salvation"
846 How are we to understand this affirmation, often repeated by the Church Fathers? Re-formulated positively, it means that all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body:
Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and Baptism, and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through Baptism as through a door. Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it.336

847 This affirmation is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church: Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation.337

848 "Although in ways known to himself God can lead those who, through no fault of their own, are ignorant of the Gospel, to that faith without which it is impossible to please him, the Church still has the obligation and also the sacred right to evangelize all men."338

My Comments
Quoting exactly what the Church teaches, from the Catechism...very good. Now, this is not giving scriptural evidence for Church teaching, but it is clarifying exactly what the Church teaches on this subject. This post could have been improved, though, by the insertion of a question or two. For example, after quoting Paragraph #846 of the Catechism, Catholic2 could have asked: Mr. Protestant, do you agree that salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is His body...yes or no? When he, hopefully, answered, "Yes," then you could follow up by asking, "So, you agree that outside of the Body of Christ there is no salvation?" If he says, "Yes," to that, then you respond with, "Well, doesn't the Bible tell us that the church is the Body of Christ? Which means, outside of the church there is no salvation?" Which is what Catholic1 was saying, but, in addition to ranting, he framed everything as a statement. He was "telling" Mr. Protestant the way it is as opposed to asking questions that would lead Mr. Protestant to discover for himself, based on his own words, the way it is.

Also, I would have included only Paragraphs #846 and #847 in this post. If necessary, you could come back and throw in the other 2 paragraphs in a later post, but it probably wouldn't ever be necessary to do so. Less is more.

Rule #11 - Ask questions as opposed to making statements whenever possible. To declare, as a Catholic, that this or that teaching of the faith is true, means little to nothing to a Protestant. To ask the Protestant a series of questions, the answers to which lead the Protestant down the path of recognizing for himself that this or that teaching of the faith is true, plants a seed.

Continuing the Facebook Conversation
Catholic3
Mr. Protestant: Sir, there is no such thing as the "Roman religion." Jesus established one church, and only one church. If one must be born of water and the spirit, and must believe on Him (Jesus), and if there is only one church that teaches the truth, it stands to reason that no, no one gets saved outside of the church established by Jesus. Jesus said in John 6: "52 The Jews then disputed among themselves, saying, “How can this man give us his flesh to eat?” 53 So Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, you have no life in you; 54 he who eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. 55 For my flesh is food indeed, and my blood is drink indeed. 56 He who eats my flesh and drinks my blood abides in me, and I in him. 57 As the living Father sent me, and I live because of the Father, so he who eats me will live because of me. 58 This is the bread which came down from heaven, not such as the fathers ate and died; he who eats this bread will live for ever.” Where else can one do that? What other church offers the Eucharist? What other church has Jesus's authority? One last thought...ultimately, the final word as to who enters heaven and who does doesn't is God Himself. God is sovereign; He has the final say.

My Comments
Nice quote from John 6. What does that have to do with "No Salvation Outside of the Church?" Rule #10. Now, instead of being able to progress towards the question of authority, you have to go on what could be a prolonged discussion about the Eucharist. The Eucharist is obviously important, but in this instance a discussion on that topic is a distraction from where you want to go...authority! On the positive side, he's asking questions, but they are questions with no relevance to the conversation as a whole.

Continuing the Facebook Conversation
Catholic4
According to the Catechism of the Catholic Church non-Catholics CAN go to heaven. Under certain circumstances. I don't remember where it says it exactly but it's there. I think the best way to think of heaven or hell for anyone besides ourselves is that God's grace is beyond our understanding and we can only say if we, ourselves, are going one way or another as that's all we have power over. Let God determine where others go. Spread the faith as you're required but let God handle the rest. I worried about my non-Catholic (I'm a convert) family especially after losing my mother. But I can't determine that for her. I'm letting God deal with that. I do pray for her soul in HOPE that she's in Purgatory.

My Comments
To paraphrase: "It's in the Catechism somewhere." Dont' ever say that. I can understand someone saying that if they are in a live conversation and can't remember on the spot an exact Paragraph #. That's when you can say, "But I will find out where it says that and get back to you." But, on Facebook? Find whatever it is you want to mention and quote it exactly, as Catholic2 did above. Here's the danger in sort of kind of remembering what the Catechism says - you could get it wrong. Getting a phrase wrong, or even sometimes just a single word wrong, could change the meaning of what the Church teaches...sometimes a little, sometimes a lot. For example, Catholic4 says, "According to the Catechism of the Catholic Church non-Catholics CAN go to heaven under certain circumstances." Well, if we look back at the paragraphs quoted by Catholic2, we see that it doesn't say they "CAN" go to heaven, it says that they "MAY" achieve eternal salvation and it gives the "certain circumstances" under which that "may" happen. Now, in this particular instance, not a huge difference between "CAN" and "MAY", but to some ears, "CAN" sounds a lot more definitive than "MAY". Plus, since he didn't give the particular circumstances under which they "MAY" achieve salvation, his statement could be interpreted more broadly by Protestants than what the Catechism actually says. For the most part, this is a minor difference, but I have seen instances where Catholics have given what they "think" the Catechism says Church teaching is, and they were woefully off base.

But, a more salient point, in this instance, is that Catholic4 says, "we can only say if we, ourselves, are going one way or another..." Actually, we can't say if we, ourselves, are going one way or another. Paul says, in 1 Cor 4, that he does not judge himself. Proverbs says the way of a man is right in his own eyes. We have an almost infinite capacity to fool ourselves as humans. So, can we really say which "way" we are going? Every Protestant who believes in Sola Fide judges themselves saved. Yet, many of those "saved" Protestants slam the Church founded by Jesus Christ and deny its authority. They deny Christ in the Eucharist. They disrespect the Mother of God. They don't necessarily obey the Commandments (those are "works"). And so on. Can they really say which "way" they are going?

I was asked just last week on Facebook: "How do you define salvation." I could have given a decent enough off the cuff definition, but instead I went to the Glossary in the back of the Catechism and gave the exact quote from the Church on the definition of salvation. It doesn't matter how I define salvation. What matters is how the Church defines salvation. It doesn't matter what I think the Church teaches. What matters is what the Church actually teaches.

Rule #12 - When speaking of Church teaching, start off by giving exact quotes, from the Church - the Catechism, a Council, an encyclical, etc. - whenever possible. Try to avoid "putting it in your own words". Once you've given the "official" Church teaching, straight from the horse's mouth, then you can maybe put it into your own words. But, make sure your words in no way, shape, or form come anywhere close to undermining the "official" version from the Church.

Continuing the Facebook Conversation
John S. Martignoni
Mr. Protesant, let's take a step back. Two things:

1) Will you agree with the statement that outside of the Body of Christ there is no salvation...yes or no?

2) In John 1:16, it states: "And from His [Jesus] fullness have we all received, grace upon grace." Do you believe we receive grace upon grace from the fullness of Jesus Christ as the Scripture says...yes or no?

My Comments
What am I doing? Basically, I'm ignoring all of the noise that had gone on in the conversation up to that point. I'm trying to re-set the conversation because it had gotten out of control. How am I trying to do that? By asking questions. Just two questions. Both of them focused on the main question of no salvation outside of the church. The first one goes back to the series of questions I mentioned above. If he agrees with Question #1, then I follow up with: Does the Bible say that the church is the Body of Christ...yes or no? And then go from there.

With Question #2, I'm coming at the question of no salvation outside of the church from a slightly different angle...the angle of grace. He has to answer, "Yes," to my question (if he answers at all), because that question is based on an exact quote from Scripture. And, if he does answer, "Yes," then I follow up with: Do you believe the church is the fullness of Jesus Christ...yes or no? Eph 1:22-23 says that the Church is indeed the fullness of Jesus Christ. So, if he answers, "No," he runs contrary to Scripture. If he answers, "Yes," then I can ask, "So, you agree that we receive grace upon grace from the Body of Christ - the church - right?" After which point the only question becomes: Which church is THE church?

Rule #13 - It's okay to ignore any and all parts of the conversation that have gone off in a different direction than the one the conversation started in. You are not required to answer each and every argument made, or question asked, by the Protestant that goes off topic. They quite often ignore the questions asked by Catholics, especially the questions that are absolutely on point, so it's no violation of the rules of conversation if you ignore some of their questions/arguments in order to re-set the conversation or to allow the conversation to proceed more smoothly.

In Summary
Again, I make no claim that my way is the best way or is even the better way. The only claim I make is that the way I do things has worked quite well for me in dialoguing with Protestants. It's enabled me to plant seeds with many folks, it's helped me to be more efficient in my conversations, and it's helped me to not waste as much time in these conversations. Plus, it has helped me to focus on the wheat instead of the chaff. I hope these will be of some use to you as well.

Closing Comments

No newsletter next week as I will be launching my Blue Collar Apologetics Weekend Seminar next Friday and Saturday at St. Theresa's in Leeds, Alabama. Please say a prayer that all goes well with it.

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