Apologetics for the Masses #474 - The Right Division of Scripture, Part 2

Unsubscribe/Subscribe

https://www.biblechristiansociety.com/newsletter/unsubscribe - to unsubscribe from this newsletter

https://www.biblechristiansociety.com/newsletter - to subscribe to this newsletter

Topic

How one single misinterpreted word, in one particular translation of the Bible - the King James Version (KJV) - has led to a massive perversion of the Word of God.

General Comments

"Articles of Interest" section at the bottom of the newsletter. This week includes articles related to the Church, Pro-Life, the Alphabet folks (homosexuality/transgenderism), Economics, and DIE (Diversity, Inclusion, and Equity). Slowly trying to expand the types of articles and organize them a little bit better. If you know of websites that regularly offer interesting articles - regardless of the topics - let me know. And, if you have a particular area of interest that you would like me to include articles on, let me know that as well.

Introduction

Last week I left you with a little homework assignment: How would you respond to what one Mr. Tim Duma had written to me about interpreting the Bible and, particularly, about his particular system of interpreting the Bible known as the "Right Division" of Scripture?

Well, before I get into how I responded to him, let me just say that there's no one right way to respond to his garbage. The contents and wording of any person's response in these situations will always depend on that person's personality, the relationship (or lack thereof) that one has with the person you are dialoguing with, and a host of other factors. Which means no two responses will be the same. However, there are certain principles that I am constantly stressing in these newsletters - which, again, are my opinions on the best way to do things, but opinions based on a long and fairly successful track record of engaging non-Catholics in debate/dialogue/argument - that I think generally serve as a good foundation for any response. So I'll give you how I responded to Mr. Duma and highlight some of those principles along the way.

I start off by repeating the response from Mr. Duma that I ended the last newsletter with, and then give my response to what he has said. Interspersed in my response will be various "Strategy" sections where I explain why I said what I said.

Challenge/Response/Strategy

Tim Duma
OK, the reason I asked you this question [Can you define What SOUND DOCTRINE is, and what scripture do you have to defend your answer?] is that I am trying to lay a solid, sound foundation, and IF you have a solid foundation, you will never get into false or heretical doctrine! I noted many times in your answers to many questions you broke this sound doctrine foundation, and when I answer your questions, you will see you have the typical poor foundation which will lead to a doctoral error that WILL affect your eternal soul!    If you do pay attention, you will learn some things, and don’t be afraid of the truth (John 17:17), especially if it is what you were taught or believed by a man or a religion!

The BIBLE definition of SOUND DOCTRINE is quite simple! It is the way God intended us to Study the word (2 Tim 2:15) divided into the PERFECT PRESERVED word (Matt 24:35, Psalm 12:6-7) The King James Bible = Equals SOUND DOCTRINE!   John, there is one PURE word of God the AV1611, and over 250 counterfeits (This is basic foundational teaching) Paul laid out 2 Timothy 2:15 perfectly we are to STUDY it, be APPROVED unto God, Don’t be ashamed, AND Rightly divide it!    Almost ALL of the cults, isms, and heresy out today either use a satanic counterfeit bible and/or do NOT rightly divide it, and by doing this you can get the scripture to say almost anything you want it to say! I will show this TRUTH in the answers you provided to the questions in your newsletter!

John, didn’t your “god” give you a perfect book? Mine Did? Didn’t your god tell you how to study it? Mine Did?   There are many different gospels, spirits, and Jesus’s, your soul better be 100% sure you got the correct ones! 2 Corinthians 11:4 (KJV) For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him. Galatians 1:7 (KJV) Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. And IF you have an online apologetics, you better know what you are talking about!

John, do you KNOW the only two places in Scripture where the DEVIL shows up and gives a play-by-play verse of what he wants to attack? #1) Genesis 3:1 (KJV) Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden? John the first thing the devil wants YOU to do is to question God's word!!! Eve’s subtracted from the text she removed the word “freely” and then added “touch”!   The devil questioned the word, gave a ½ truth and Eve subtracted and added to the word, (an innocent woman programed by God easily tricked)! This is what the Devil has been trying to do ever since, (and with great success) and that is why we have 250+ different versions, that come from the satanic line of the Codex Vaticanus and Codex Sinaiticus where your Roman Catholic bible comes from! You don’t even have a real bible, how pathetic is that!!! No wonder why Catholics have to go to a man who is a sinner, and wears a Dagon fish hat to interpret what the word says! In my 40 years of being saved, I still am amazed at such ignorance! (I hope the Holy Spirit is showing you some things here).

The #2 spot is In Luke 4:1-13, for lack of a long letter, just read the devil tempting The Lord Jesus Christ in these verses! The Devil was trying to get Him to change the way the scriptures are laid out and wanted The Lord to come before His time (not rightly dividing the word of God). This is going on BIG time today and that’s WHY we have all the cults and heresies! Look what happens after the temptation in Luke 4:14-21 so you can NOT miss it!!!!!     Luke 4:14-21 (KJV) And Jesus returned in the power of the Spirit into Galilee: and there went out a fame of him through all the region round about. And he taught in their synagogues, being glorified of all. And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read. And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written, The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised, To preach the acceptable year of the Lord. And he closed the book, and he gave it again to the minister, and sat down. And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on him. And he began to say unto them, This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears. The lord went to the Book of Isaiah and quoted ONLY up to the middle of verse 61:12 and STOPPED!!! Why because there is the BREAK between the first coming (Jesus was in their midst), and the second half of verse 61:12, which is the second coming of the Lord Jesus Christ, 2000 years later! The Lord Jesus Christ rightly divided the word! How can YOU miss this!!!!!   This is how we should STUDY the word!!!!

John, I gave you the only two places in scripture where the Lord shows you a clear path where the Devil messes with two very important truths, The word of God, AND rightly dividing the scriptures, this is NO small matter and this is why you are all messed up in your theology, you unfortunately do not have either correct!!

There is a boatload of information on the Bible issue AND right division, so I will just put a few links below, so I do not have to spend hours redoing what others have done. I will spend time on the application of these truths to show you how you get bad doctrine to your answers!

There are hundreds of books on this issue, and the ONLY zeal is for the King James Bible, the ONLY one without a copyright (you can't copyright Gods word)

My Response
Tim,

You are correct, we need to lay a solid, sound foundation if we are to have a productive conversation in regard to those 8 questions I asked, the first of which you have provided an answer for.

So, in order to do that, we need to address this teaching of the "right division" of Scripture that you believe in, as that is actually the crux of the difference between us. Given that, I would like to ask you a few questions about your beliefs on this matter so as to help me better understand them, and so that I am not assuming anything about what you believe and why you believe it. Now, you might say, "Well, John, I provided you with some excellent videos for you to research this subject, so just go and watch those. Sorry, Tim, but I have neither the time nor the inclination to watch videos by other people in regard to a conversation that I am trying to have with you. I want to hear what you believe, and why, straight from the horse's mouth, so to speak.

Strategy
The "right division" of Scripture theology is at the core of our differences here. And, at the core of right division theology is the question of authority. Who gets to decide how to "rightly divide" the Bible and which verses are addressed to which people and in which era? Because the Bible itself doesn't say, "This verse or this chapter or this book of the Bible is meant for these people but not those, but only during this particular time period and not any other." Which means it is a system of theology based not on what the Bible actually says, but based, rather, completely on the interpretations of the Bible made by fallible men who have no authority whatsoever to claim what they are claiming. So, it is going to be futile to dialogue about this or that individual topic, until the underlying issue of authority is addressed. Which is generally the case in discussions between Catholic and Protestant.

(Note: The whole "right division" of Scripture theology relies, first and foremost, on the phrase "rightly dividing" as found in 2 Tim 2:15 of the King James Version of the Bible - "Study to show thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividiing the word of truth." Imagine, a whole system of theology concocted from the mistranslation of a single phrase - actually a single word, "dividing" - of Scripture. What the verse actually means, is rightly handling or rightly teaching or rightly discerning the word of truth. It is not saying that the Bible needs to be literally "divided" verse by verse and book by book along the lines of what Tim Duma and his folks believe. And we can know this with certainty because the translators of the KJV were Anglican, and they do not now, nor did they in the 1500's, believe in "rightly dividing" the Bible in the same manner as Mr. Tim Duma does. In other words, they did not interpret 2 Tim 2:15 in the same manner that right division folks interpret 2 Tim 2:15. So, if the translators of the KJV did not translate 2 Tim 2:15 as literally "dividing" the Bible up, then what is the justification for Tim Duma do so?)

My Response (cont'd)
Again, I have some questions to ask you so that we might be able to work from a common foundation - a solid, sound foundation - as you had said, which will help us to get on the same page, so to speak. But, before I ask you any questions about right division and such, I will answer all of the questions you have asked of me, in your last email, in order to show my good faith in this endeavor. If I overlook any, please let me know.

1) "John, didn’t your “god” give you a perfect book?" Yes, He did. Actually, He gave us two - the Bible and creation. The Bible is the inspired, inerrant Word of God.

2) "Didn’t your god tell you how to study it?" Well, actually, no, He did not. At least, not directly. He did tell us, though, that the Church is the pillar and ground of the truth (1 Tim 3:15 KJV). Since a pillar holds things up, and the ground serves as a foundation for things, what God is telling us, through Paul, is that the Church is the upholder and foundation of the truth. The truth which is Jesus Christ. God also tells us, in Matthew 18:15-18, that it is the Church that is the final arbiter of disputes between Christians. Scripture also tells us that Paul was persecuting the Church, and that Jesus identifies Himself with the Church (Acts 8:3; Acts 9:4) and that the Church is one with Jesus (Eph 5:32). All of which means that in order to properly understand and study the Word of God, we need to listen to the Church.

3) "John, do you KNOW the only two places in Scripture where the DEVIL shows up and gives a play-by-play verse of what he wants to attack?" Well, actually, there aren't just the two places you mention - Genesis 3 and Luke 4 - which I am very familiar with, by the way. There's also the Book of Job. Job is in your Bible, but apparently you aren't familiar with that story, are you? Look at Job 1:6-12 and Job 2:1-7. The devil does indeed "show up" and makes a pretty big mess of things for Job and his family. Kind of makes me think that you aren't really all that familiar with the Bible, Tim.

Strategy
I want to demonstrate to him that I am not averse to answering his questions with direct answers, which allows me to then expect the same from him. So, I answered the first two of his questions with a direct yes or no answer, and then a very succinct explanation for each. That is how I recommend you try to answer every question asked of you. Directly and succinctly. If you are engaged in a written dialogue, then after you have typed out your response to the other person, read their question or argument again, and then re-read your answer and see if it directly responds to what they are saying, with as few words as possible. If it doesn't, then re-write it. And remember, the more words you use, the more opportunity you give them to go off on any number of rabbit trails.

I answered the 3rd question by showing him that he is wrong in what he said about there being "only two places in Scripture where the DEVIL shows up". By making claims about Scripture that are not true, he undermines his own claims of being a "knowledgeable person" when it comes to understanding Scripture and it also undermines the credibility of any claim he makes to be guided by the Holy Spirit in matters of Scripture. So, I wanted to point that out to him.

My Response (cont'd)
Okay, those are the only questions that I could find that you asked, so I answered them. Again, if I overlooked a question, please let me know and I will answer it as directly as I have these 3 questions. I hope you will do me the courtesy to answer my questions as directly, and succinctly, as I have answered yours.

Now, here are my questions - and these are very easy questions to answer, especially for someone who is a "saved knowledgeable person" such as yourself, so it shouldn't take you any time at all to answer them. Also, this first question, I am going to answer for you. If I answer incorrectly for you, please feel free to correct my answer accordingly. And, even though most of these questions are yes/no questions, please feel free, after answering with a "yes" or a "no", as I have done above, to explain your answer as much as you would like:

Strategy
For those of you who have been reading my newsletters for any length of time, you know that I generally try to phrase my questions, as often as possible, in the form of a yes/no question. Or, I ask for a Bible verse or verses - book, chapter, and verse. I do that because I want a definitive response to what I'm asking. I don't want them to just ramble all over the place and make me try to figure out exactly what the heck they're saying. But, once they answer yes or no, or give me a Bible verse, I tell them to feel free to explain all you want, just first give me a definitive answer. I actually like having them talk as much as possible because the more they talk, the more they generally contradict themselves.

My Response (cont'd)
1) Are you infallible in your interpretation of Scripture...yes or no? The other Right Division folks that I've talked with state that "no man is infallible", so I am going to answer, "No", on your behalf to this question - No, Tim Duma is not infallible in his interpretation of Scripture. Again, correct me if I've gotten that answer wrong.

2) If you are not infallible in your interpretation of Scripture, then do you agree that you could, at least theoretically, misinterpret one or more Scripture verses...yes or no?

3) In the Right Division of Scripture theology, do you believe Jesus and Paul preach a different gospel...yes or no? If so, what is the gospel called that Jesus preaches and what is the gospel called that Paul preaches?

4) Do you believe that the entire Old Testament, as well as most of the New Testament, except for Paul's letters, is meant for the Jews; while Paul's letters are meant for the Gentiles...yes or no?

5) You mentioned, in your description of yourself, that you are waiting on the "Rapture". Could you give me any verses from Scripture that refer to a rapture?

6) If the AV1611 (the King James Authorized Version of 1611) is the only "perfect" Bible, then are you saying God allowed all of Christianity to be deceived with an imperfect Bible for almost 1600 years...yes or no?

7) Who was it exactly, that "authorized" the "AV1611?

8) You stated that the AV1611 is "the ONLY one [Bible] without a copyright". That is absolutely false. Once again, your knowledge of things to do with the Bible proves unreliable. The first two Bibles I thought of after I read your statement- the Latin Vulgate Bible and the Douay-Rheims Bible - don't have copyrights. So, will you renounce your false statement on that...yes or no? (By the way, you apparently are unaware that the first copyright law didn't come into existence until 100 years after the KJV was published, so of course it doesn't have a copyright - copyrights didn't exist!)

9) By what authority do you dare to tell me I'm right or wrong on anything to do with the Christian religion or the interpretation of God's Word?

Just 9 for now. But, they are all short answer questions so, again, it shouldn't take someone as incredibly knowledgeable as you but a few minutes to answer them. The answers to these questions will enable me to better understand what you believe, and thus allow me to go much further in my demonstration of how your right division of Scripture theology is a complete and total bastardization of the Word of God. So, to be honest with you, I don't think you're going to be very forthcoming with answers.

In Christ,

John

P.S. Again, if you have any further questions of me, don't hesitate to ask.

Strategy
9 questions - 6 yes/no questions, 2 short answer questions, and 1 question asking for specific Bible verses. Should take less than 5 minutes to answer all 9. Note: the 1st two questions are pointing to the issue of authority, while the last question directly asks, "By what authority?" Authority is the issue...period. Who gets to decide what is and is not authentic Christian belief and practice - each person reading and interpreting the Bible on their own, as they believe they are guided by the Holy Spirit to do (which is nowhere found in Scripture) or the Church founded by Jesus Christ and guided by the Holy Spirit (which is indeed found in Scripture)?

The other questions are designed to get more specific information about right division theology (Questions #3 and #4) and about the KJV-only belief (Questions #6 and #7). Question 5 is looking for Scripture verses he believes supports the "Rapture" - so as to show they don't actually say what he says they say - and Question #8 is simply seeing if he is honest enough to admit error when it is staring him in the face. To say the KJV is the only version of the Bible without a copyright is ridiculous for two reasons: 1) There are indeed other Bibles without copyrights. None of the Bibles that existed before the 1700's had copyrights; because, 2) The first copyright laws didn't come into existence until the 1700's. A very easy fact to look up. So, of course, the KJV, translated in 1611, didn't have a copyright. The fact that he did not know that, and never bothered to look it up, is yet another argument against his claim that he is guided by the Holy Spirit in these matters. I mean, don't you think the Holy Spirit knows that copyright laws didn't exist in England until the early 1700's?

Overall, the general strategy is to ask questions that demand direct answers. Keep your answers to questions on point and keep them short and sweet whenever possible. Don't think you have to make definitive, irrefutable, tie up all the loose ends, kick arse arguments in the first round of the exchange. Look at these dialogues as a process rather than as a one-time event, unless you know you will never be talking to this person again. If that's the case, then go for it. But, if it's not the case, then don't be in a hurry.

Don't be in a hurry because, when it comes to the questions you ask, try to ask them in such a way that you can lead them down the path you want them to go. For instance, when he mentions the Rapture (see the last section below), I don't just go right into shooting down the Rapture and giving him a long explanation with several Scripture verses showing the Rapture theology to be false. No, I want him to take it a little bit at a time and give him things in small digestible bites. I have a modus operandi of asking what I call the "set up" question, and then when they answer that, I ask the "close the door" question. I don't do that every single time, but as often as possible. That way I use their own answers against them. Ask a question, get an answer, then ask another question based on that answer that shows them their answer wasn't in line with Scripture, or logic, or both.

Tim Duma
{Okay, one last thing. Last week I forgot to include the very last paragraph of his response. It was a self-description. So, I'm including it here:}

Now John just to give you a little about myself, because, it is important to KNOW who is corresponding with you, I am a retired senior businessman whose entire family was raised in the Roman Catholic cult, SO I am speaking from experience of being deceived by this false religious system and great whore of Rev 17-18. By the grace of God, my entire family and I have been saved and delivered from the devil's clutches. Amen & Amen!!! Some of my family members have gone to heaven already (not man-made purgatory) and some of us are waiting for the blessed hope (Titus 2:13) to be raptured out or called home naturally! I have never doubted my salvation in 37 years BECAUSE my God, The Lord Jesus is NOT an Indian giver Jesus who will take back His free gift! (another false teaching of many cults and sects)   John like an ex-smoker, or ex-drunkard, or ex-catholic once you leave the cesspool of bad garbage, you are its best opponent for speaking against it! John, believe it or not, I am saying this with “grace” and truth (John 1:17b), if I did not care I would NOT spend this time writing you, hopefully, you and your readers will see their error and repent!

Tim (Saved by the blood of The Lord Jesus Christ, and serving because of His grace)

My Comments
Of course he's an ex-Catholic and, as such, of course he is the "best opponent for speaking against it!" (The part about waiting to be "raptured" is why I asked him that question about the Rapture.)

Closing Comments

I hope all of you have a great week and that this Easter Season continues to be a happy and holy one for you!

Donations

The Bible Christian Society is a non-profit organization that relies solely on your support to bring the truths of the Catholic Faith to tens of thousands of people throughout the U.S. and all around the world each year. If you would like to help us do what we do, you can donate online at:

https://www.biblechristiansociety.com/donations

or send a check to:

Bible Christian Society

PO Box 424

Pleasant Grove, AL 35127.

Anything you can do is greatly appreciated!

Articles of Interest

The Catholic Church
     - The Key Weakness of "Dignitas Infinitas"

     - Cause for Canonization of 13-yr. Old Filipina Officially Opened

     - Commercial Featuring Nuns Taking Potato Chips for Communion Sparks Outrage in Italy

     - Words From the Pastor of a Flourishing Parish

Homosexuality/Transgenderism
     - Mayo Clinic Study Blows Up Transgender Arguments

     - The Detransition Diaries - 7 Stories of Those Who Bought Into, Then Ultimately Rejected, the Transgender Lies

     - Study From England Counters Transgender Arguments

     - Priest Targeted By French Government For "Homophobia"

Pro-Life
     - Carmelite Nuns Leading the Fight Against New York Abortion Mandate

     - European Parliament Makes Killing Babies a Fundamental Human Right

     - Biden Campaign Runs Pro-Abortion Ads After Arizona Supreme Court Decision

     - Woman Born of Surrogacy Now Fights Against It

     - Pew Research Study - 6 in 10 "Catholics" Favor Abortion Rights

DIE - Diversity, Inclusion, and Equity
     - The Math "Equity" Movement is a Scam

Economics
     - European Central Bank Trying to Sell Public on Central Bank Digital Currencies

Unsubscribe/Subscribe

https://www.biblechristiansociety.com/newsletter/unsubscribe - to unsubscribe from this newsletter

https://www.biblechristiansociety.com/newsletter - to subscribe to this newsletter