Apologetics for the Masses #455 - Mike Gendron's Anti-Catholic Video Eviscerated; Part 2 - Gendron's Response

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Topic

Taking apart Mike Gendron's Anti-Catholic Viral Video...Piece-By-Piece.

General Comments

Hey folks,

A quick heads up for those of you living in and around the Greenville/Spartanburg, Columbia, SC and Charlotte, NC areas - I'll be speaking at the 11th Annual Marian Eucharistic Conference at the Greenville Convention Center, on October 13/14. Other speakers include Fr. Donald Calloway, Jim Wahlberg, Fr. John Bartunek, and Fr. Thomas Petri. Should be an awesome weekend in Greenville! Would love to see you at the conference if you're anywhere near there.

To register, or for more information, go to: https://meconferencesc.net/

Introduction

Last week I began the dismantling of Mike Gendron's anti-Catholic YouTube video titled: Ex-Catholic Exposes the TWISTED Teachings of the Catholic Church. Well, he sent me his response to what I had said in the newsletter. So, as is my customary practice, I am printing his response, unedited, and in its entirety, here in this newsletter and the next (splitting it up because it would get too long). So, I will give his response, and my reply to it, this week and next. By the way, do you think, he would ever print anything I said in response to his videos/writings in the newsletter he sends out to his email list? No way. Error fears truth; truth does not fear error.

So, I will have what was said in last week's newsletter - the quotes from his anti-Catholic video and my comments on that - followed by his responses to my comments, and then my replies to his responses.

A couple of things I want you to pay careful attention to, because this will be true in most, if not all, of the conversations you have with Protestants. First, how he doesn't really respond to the main arguments that I make. Secondly, how he keeps giving us the Word of Gendron while he claims to be giving us the Word of God. There are some key words that he himself uses that make that fact ridiculously plain to any rational and fair-minded observer, but apparently not to Mike himself.

His comments will be in italics.

Challenge/Response/Strategy

Gendron Anti-Catholic Video
2:10 - Gendron says: "The Catholic Church is definitely a counterfeit form of Christianity. It's an apostate form of Christianity.

2:43 - "I love Roman Catholics. I've given my life to reach them. But I hate the institution that keeps them on the wide road to destruction with a false and fatal gospel...We love the people, but we hate what is false."

My Comments
First of all, before I comment on specifics from the video, I want to make note of the fact, Mike, that the comments section is turned off on the video. Hmmm. I wonder why that is? It seems to me that if you were getting glowing reviews for the video that you would not have turned off the comments section. By any chance were Catholics leaving comments about all the errors/misrepresentations/contradictions/lies in the video, Mike, and you didn't really want "true Christians" to see that kind of information? Just wondering.

Anyway, on to the content of the video.

Regarding these 1st two quotes: Mike, if I can show you that a number of things you say about the Catholic Church - whether in this video, other videos, or in your written articles - are false, will you renounce and retract your statements publicly? I mean, you say you "hate what is false", so if I show your statements to be false, will you renounce them...yes or no? Isn't that what a truly saved Christian would do if he was shown to be spreading error about what other people believe?

Secondly, will you admit that when you said the Catholic Church is "definitely" a "counterfeit form of Christianity", and that it is "apostate", that it would have been more accurate if you had said, " In my opinion, the Catholic Church is definitely a counterfeit form of Christianity," and, " In my opinionthe Catholic Church is apostate?" After all, the Bible nowhere says: "The Catholic Church is definitely a counterfeit form of Christianity...," does it? Which means your judgment regarding the Church is based on your fallible interpretations of Scripture (aka: your opinion), correct?

Mike Gendron's Response
I did not turn off the comments section, perhaps it was done by the church that recorded the message and placed it on YouTube. Some Catholics have responded to me directly on email with language that has been vulgar and obscene so I appreciate your willingness to discuss these vitally important issues.

Regarding your comment, "if I show your statements to be false.” Since you and I have different authorities for determining what is true and what is false, this would not prove anything. I believe the inspired Word of God is the ultimate authority that reproves and exposes error (2 Tim 3:16).

The Bible reveals apostasy is a departure from the faith of the apostles. The content of that faith was signed, sealed and delivered in the first century (1 John 2:19, Jude 3, 1 Tim. 4:1-3). The RCC looks nothing like the first century church of the apostles. None of these Catholic traditions are found in the 1st Century Church: priests offering sacrifices for sins, Indulgences remitting sin’s punishment, praying for souls in purgatory, infallible men or popes, salvation obtained through sacraments, rosaries, scapulars, holy water, crucifixes, and statues.

My Reply
You didn’t turn off the comments on the video...fair enough. I’ll have to contact the pastor of Revolve church where your presentation was given and ask him about it. And, I’ll also ask him why he allows anti-Catholic bigotry to be celebrated in his church. Furthermore, if Catholics have indeed responded to you with vulgar and obscene language, then shame on them. They need to get to Confession.

Yes, Mike, you and I have different authorities in regard to determining true and false doctrine - your authority is your own personal interpretation of the Word of God which, you admit, is fallible and carries no authority and has no power; as opposed to my authority being the Church founded by Jesus Christ and guided by the Holy Spirit. However, that is irrelevant to the question I asked, as one does not need to consult the Bible to determine whether the Catholic Church teaches what you claim it teaches or not. One just need to consult Catholic teaching itself. So, again, I ask the question: Mike, if I show your claims about what the Catholic Church teaches to be false, will you renounce and retract any false statements you make about the Catholic Church and its teachings...yes or no?

Regarding the Catholic traditions that you claim are not found in the “1st Century Church”, I would simply ask: How do you know? How do you know there were no priests offering the "pure offering" from the rising of the sun to its setting that is prophesied in Mal 1:11 to come after Christ? And, if there were no infallible men in the “1st Century Church”, then are you saying the writers of the New Testament were not infallible in what they wrote? There could be mistakes in the New Testament? If there were no crucifixes, then what were the Galatians looking at in Gal 3:1 when Jesus was “publicly portrayed as crucified” before their eyes? Does the Bible say there were no statues or holy water in the “1st Century Church”? If so, where (book, chapter, and verse)?

Also, please tell me where the Bible mentions altar calls? Or deacons electing the pastors? Or Wednesday night church meetings? Or the canon of the Scripture? Or the rapture? Or Sola Scriptura? Or Sola Fide? Or essential vs. non-essential doctrines? Or "accepting Jesus into your heart as your personal Lord and Savior"?

Finally, I will ask again the question you did not answer: Does the Bible anywhere say, "The Catholic Church is a counterfeit form of Christianity?" If not, then is it not true that your judgment regarding the Catholic Church is based upon your fallible interpretations of Scripture (aka: your opinion), correct?

Gendron Anti-Catholic Video
3:00 - "We want to look through the lens of Scripture, which is our supreme authority for discerning truth from error."

My Comments
Mike, you like to think that you go by the Scripture Alone (Sola Scriptura), but isn't it actually true that you go by your fallible, non-authoritative, private interpretations of Scripture alone? I will show this to be true below. You read a verse of Scripture and then you essentially say, "This is what that means...," and proceed to give your private interpretations of those verses. You do it all the time. The question I have for you is this: Are your private interpretations of Scripture infallible...yes or no? If not, could you possibly...just possibly...be wrong in one or more of your interpretations of the Bible...yes or no? You don't go by the Word of God alone, Mike, you go by the Word of Gendron alone. You don't look through the "lens of Scripture" you look through the "lens of your fallible interpretations of Scripture". Deny it...tell me I'm wrong on that.

Mike Gendron's Response
All Scripture is inspired by God and there is no higher authority than almighty God. It is the only infallible source for truth we have. I am not infallible which is why I point people to the Word of God which is infallible. I do not want people to believe my words which have no authority or power. “All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, reproof, correction and for training in righteousness” (2 Tim. 3:16). There are no infallible interpreters of the Bible, no not even your pope and bishops. Scripture was used to test the veracity of an apostle’s teaching (Acts 17:11). Whenever Scripture is not the supreme authority, Christ will be dishonored, His Gospel will be distorted, faith will be misplaced, the church will be ineffective and men will steal glory from God. The best interpreters of Scripture are those who use a proper hermeneutic and interpret Scripture with Scripture.

My Reply
I appreciate the fact that you admitted that you are not infallible and that your words have absolutely no authority and no power. Will you then also admit that, given your infallibility, and lack of authority, any and every interpretation of Scripture that you make, could be wrong...yes or no? I ask because even though you claim otherwise, it is indeed your words that you want people to believe. It is the Word of Gendron you ask people to believe, not the Word of God, as I have shown in my comments in the last newsletter and will show throughout this newsletter.

You stated; “The best interpreters of Scripture are those who use a proper hermeneutic and interpret Scripture with Scripture.” Please give me book, chapter, and verse as to where that statement is found in the Bible. And, if that statement is not found in the Bible, then am I justified in saying that it is the Word of Gendron as opposed to the Word of God? And, if it is the Word of Gendron, then, as you have already admitted, can we agree that your words are fallible and have no authority and no power?

Who, may I ask, Mike, has the authority to determine what is a “proper hermeneutic” for interpreting Scripture? Does Scripture tell us what that hermeneutic is? You claim you have no authority, yet you ask me, and many others, to take your words as being authoritative. You ask me to rely on your words - your private, fallible, non-authoritative interpretations of Scripture - for my salvation! You’re talking out of both sides of your mouth, Mike.

Gendron Anti-Catholic Video
3:20 - Is the Catholic Church: 1) the one true apostolic church founded by Christ; or 2) a Christian denomination made up of brothers and sisters in Christ; or 3) an apostate church whose members need to be evangelized? "You be the jury!"

My Comments
I will indeed be the jury. But, I will be an informed jury. A jury that recognizes error when it sees it. A jury that will not let you get away with misrepresentations, if not outright lies, about the Catholic Church and its teachings. A jury that will point out your your contradictions and your lack of logic. A jury that will highlight the fact that you aren't trying to convince people using the Word of God, but rather by using the Word of Gendron. Let's get on with the trial!

My Reply
Mike, you had no comments here. So I will add to what I said above by saying that you don't truly want anyone to be the jury and decide for themselves. What you are looking for is a rigged jury. A jury that simply accepts the Word of Gendron as the gospel truth without any sort of critical examination. If the jury hears your "evidence" and conclude something contrary to what you believe, then you believe them damned for all time. If the jury rejects your "evidence" as false, as having no power, as being contrary to reason and contrary to Scripture, then you believe them damned for all time. You are not looking for a fair and impartial jury, you are looking for an unthinking jury that lacks critical reasoning skills and who do not ask you any difficult questions. Especially questions for which your theology has no answers.

Gendron Anti-Catholic Video
3:45 - "Ever since the Lord Jesus founded His church 2000 years ago, there have been 2 streams of Christianity running side-by-side. You have the apostolic church, this is the church the Lord Jesus founded...but then you also have the apostate church. It, too, has been operating for 2000 years. It's made up of churches, denominations, and individuals who departed from the true church or departed from the faith of the apostles."

My Comments
Mike, for someone who claims that Scripture is your "supreme authority" for discerning truth from error, I have to ask you: Where does the Bible say, "There have been two streams of Christianity running side-by-side" for the last 2000 years, " Ever since the Lord Jesus founded His church?" Can you give me book, chapter, and verse on that? Can you name some of these "churches, denominations, and individuals" that were a part of the 2nd "stream" of Christianity to which you were referring? Are you talking about the various heresies that have appeared throughout the centuries, and calling them churches and denominations? The Gnostic denomination? The Arian denomination? The Pelagian denomination? Please clarify who these churches, denominations, and individuals were.

Mike Gendron's Response
In the first century and for the last 2000 years, there is the church that the Lord Jesus founded. Apostasy also started in the first century as we see in 1 John 2:19. It has continued for 2000 years. The RCC is not the only apostate form of Christianity. There are also protestant churches, denominations, cults and false converts who have departed from Christ, His Gospel and the apostolic faith.

My Reply
In your presentation, Mike, you clearly identified the Catholic Church as one of the “two streams of Christianity running side-by-side” for the last 2000 years. I.e., you admit that the Catholic Church is 2000-years old and has existed, “Ever since the Lord Jesus founded His church”. On that, we agree.

Gendron Anti-Catholic Video
4:40 - "How do we know it's been operating for 2000 years? In 1 John 2:19, John said, 'They went out from us because they were never part of us. Had they been part of us, they would have remained with us.' Another way we can look at that: 'They went out from us because they were never born again. Had they been born again, they would have remained with us.' But they departed from the faith of the Apostles."

My Comments
Okay, here is exactly what I was talking about above. You are not giving us the Word of God, you are giving us the Word of Gendron. 1 John 2:19 says absolutely nothing about whether or not the people who "went out from us" were born again or not. You have your preconceived beliefs and you are interpreting Scripture in such a way as to fit those beliefs. Since you believe in Once Saved Always Saved, you are interpreting this verse through that particular lens of the Word of Gendron. But, in actuality, nowhere does the Word of God mention "born again" or not "born again" in this passage. You are, essentially, adding to Scripture here.

Also, you said that those people who "went out" had "departed from the faith of the Apostles". Your exact words. Could you explain to me how a person can depart from something they apparently never had? Can I "depart" from my belief in the Trinity, for example, if I never actually believed in the Trinity? Can I "depart" from my faith in Jesus as the Christ if I never believed that Jesus is the Christ? How can someone "depart" from the faith of the Apostles, if they never had the faith of the Apostles? I mean, according to your theology, if they had had the faith of the Apostles, they would have been saved and would never have "went out". So, again, how did they depart from that which, according to you, they never had?

Mike Gendron's Response
Churches are made up of true and false Christians. That is why Paul exhorted churches to examine themselves to make sure they are in the faith (2 Cor. 13:5). In 1 John 2:19, John implies that the ones who departed were tares or false converts. Remember, Jesus described “tares” in the church as sons of the wicked one and the one who sowed them is the devil (Mat. 13:38-39). False Christians, or false converts may have had head knowledge of the truth but had never repented and believed the true Gospel, and therefore never been born again. True Christians are those who God causes to be born again (1 Pet. 1:3). He makes them new creatures (2 Cor. 5:17). God’s Spirit seals, indwells and acts as a deposit guaranteeing their eternal inheritance (Eph. 1:13; Rom. 8:9,13). God justifies them with His righteousness forever; and there is no more condemnation for those in Christ Jesus (Tit. 3:7; Rom. 8:1; Hebrews 10:14). Also by implication, true Christians, who belong to Christ and are sealed with the Holy Spirit, will remain in His universal church.

My Reply
In 1 John 2:19, you said that John “implies” that the ones who departed were “tares or false converts”. Really?! “Implies!?” In other words, John didn’t actually say that, did he? You did. The Word of Gendron, not the Word of God - will you admit to that...yes or no? Will you admit that 1 John 2:19 says nothing about being "born again" or not being "born again"...yes or no? You’re taking your preconceived beliefs about Once Saved Always Saved and trying to make Scripture fit what you believe.

Furthermore, you didn’t answer my question: How can someone “depart” from the faith of the Apostles...if they never had the faith of the Apostles, as you claim? How, in 1 Tim 4:1, can Paul say some will “depart” from the faith...if they never had the faith, as you claim? How can you depart from that which you never had? Can I depart from my faith in Jesus Christ if I never had faith in Jesus Christ? Can I depart from my belief in the Trinity if I never believed in the Trinity? How can you depart from that which you never had?! Please explain.

You also stated: "False Christians, or false converts may have had head knowledge of the truth but had never repented and believed the true Gospel, and therefore never been born again.” Is that from the Word of God (book, chapter, and verse?), or the Word of Gendron? How do you know they “never repented” and never “believed the true Gospel”? Book, chapter, and verse, please, Mr. "I point people to the Word of God"? Where is that in the Word of God? And if they never believed the true Gospel, then how did they “depart” from the true Gospel?

"Also by implication, true Christians, who belong to Christ and are sealed with the Holy Spirit, will remain in His universal church." By "implication"?! Again, another Word of Gendron private, fallible interpretation of Scripture that has no authority and no power. Yet, you want me to accept it just because you say it.

To summarize
Here are the main issues, Mike:

1) Your "hermeneutic" is faulty - you have preconceived beliefs and you try to twist the Scriptures to fit those beliefs as opposed to letting the Scriptures speak for themselves. You do not "interpret Scripture with Scripture," rather, you "interpret Scripture with fallible interpretations of Scripture". Essentially, you interpret the Word of God with the Word of Gendron.

2) You admit that your interpretations of Scripture are fallible and have no authority nor any power. Yet, you keep trying to convince the world to believe not what the Scriptures actually say, instead you try to convince the world to believe what Mike Gendron says the Scriptures say. Mike, I believe every single word of the Word of God; however, I do not agree with many of your private, fallible interpretations of the Word of God. Big difference between the two.

3) Here are my questions that have gone unanswered:

a) If I show your claims about what the Catholic Church teaches to be false, will you renounce and retract any false statements you make about the Catholic Church and its teachings...yes or no?

b) Does the Bible anywhere say, "The Catholic Church is a counterfeit form of Christianity?" If not, then is it not true that your judgment regarding the Catholic Church is based upon your fallible interpretations of Scripture (aka: your opinion), correct?

c) You like to think that you go by the Scripture Alone (Sola Scriptura), but isn't it actually true that you go by your fallible, non-authoritative, private interpretations of Scripture alone?

d) Since your interpretations of Scripture are fallible and have no authority, could you possibly...just possibly...be wrong in one or more of your interpretations of the Bible...yes or no?

e) You don't look through the "lens of Scripture" you look through the "lens of your fallible interpretations of Scripture", right?

f) 1 John 2:19 says absolutely nothing about whether or not the people who "went out from us" were born again or not...true or false?

g) Could you explain to me how a person can depart from something they apparently never had? How can one depart from the faith if they never had the faith in the first place?

Closing Comments

Stay tuned, folks...next week's newsletter is going to really turn up the heat. Have a great week!

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