Apologetics for the Masses #323 - The Sinlessness of Mary

Topic

A debate with Mr. Steve Fitz, anti-Catholic, on: The Sinlessness of Mary

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General Comments

Hey folks,

A couple of things:

1) Please keep my son, Noah, in your prayers this week as he will be receiving the Sacrament of Confirmation on Wednesday, and please keep my daughter, McKenna, in your prayers as she will be graduating from high school on the 24th of this month.

2) For all of you in the North Alabama area, I will be speaking at St. Paul's parish in Athens, Alabama, on Wednesday, May 30th, at 6:30 PM. I will speak first on Marriage - my talk on "Marriage and the Eucharist: The Two Shall Become One" - and I will also be doing a "mini" talk on the "Anointing of the Sick."

Introduction

Okay, this week is another homework assignment; although, no need to send in your answers. Just think about what you would say in response to the arguments, such as they are, of our anti-Catholic of the week: Mr. Steve Fitz. He runs a Facebook page called: Protestants, Orthodox and Catholics Debate. He got word to me through a 3rd party that he wanted to debate me. So, I went on his FB page, and I think I was a "member" there for maybe half a day before it was made readily apparent to me that the word "Debate" in the name of the page is a misnomer. They really didn't want to debate, they just wanted to rip into Catholics, call us names, condemn us to Hell, trash the Catholic Church, and so on.

No one would give answers to my questions, and one of the other administrators, named Eddie, couldn't make a post without an ugly, snide remark about Catholics or the Church or me, personally. When I pointed out to the administrator, our Mr. Fitz, that I, as a Catholic, appeared to have a different set of rules being applied to me than the non-Catholics did...well, I was promptly muted. That's when I decided I was not going to bother with that page any longer. (If you are tempted to try out that page, I would advise you not to waste your time...it's a toxic place.)

Anyway, Mr. Fitz wouldn't let go of it, so he again contacted me through a 3rd party saying he wanted to debate the "sinlessness of Mary" with me on my Facebook page (John Martignoni and the Bible Christian Society - if any of you are interested in it). I told the intermediary that I would do so under one condition - that Steve Fitz agree, and I quote: "to give direct answers to every one of my questions." The intermediary responded back a few hours later that Mr. Fitz agreed to my condition. So, I let him join my page and I posted what you see below about the Immaculate Conception and Mary's sinlessness as the "proposition" to be debated. He then posted the comments below.

So, you guys read through what he said, and then think about how you would respond. What would you say? What arguments would you make? What Bible verses, if any, would you use to respond to him? What logical and/or scriptural problems do you see with his arguments? I'll send out my response, and explanations for my response, next week.

Challenge/Response/Strategy

A DEBATE ON THE SINLESSNESS OF MARY.

The Affirmative: John Martignoni (Catholic)
The Negative: Steve Fitz (non-Catholic)

The most Blessed Virgin Mary was, from the first moment of her conception, by a singular grace and privilege of almighty God and by virtue of the merits of Jesus Christ, Savior of the human race, preserved immune from all stain of original sin. And, by the grace of God, Mary remained free of every personal sin her whole life long.

Steve Fitz - Response

      John, why was Jesus uniquely qualified to die on the cross for sin. Why was Jesus uniquely qualified where no other person could have paid for sin including Mary? Since the animal sacrifices of the Old Testament were a foreshadow to Christ's sacrifice, It might be a good idea to look at the requirements of the animal sacrifices.

     Leviticus 4:32 states "“‘If someone brings a lamb as their sin offering, they are to bring a female without defect.

     Leviticus 22:21 states "When anyone brings from the herd or flock a fellowship offering to the Lord to fulfill a special vow or as a freewill offering, it must be without defect or blemish to be acceptable.

     This same phrase used in regard to animal sacrifice is found in Exodus 12:5, Exodus 29:1, Leviticus 1:3, Leviticus 1:10, Leviticus 3:1, Leviticus 4:3, Leviticus 4:28, Leviticus 4:32, Leviticus, Leviticus 5:15. I could go on but I won't.

     How does this phrase relate to Jesus and his unique qualification to die on the cross? 1 Peter 1:18-19 states " For you know that it was not with perishable things such as silver or gold that you were redeemed from the empty way of life handed down to you from your ancestors, but with the precious blood of Christ, a lamb without blemish or defect." So Jesus is described as "a lamb without blemish or defect" meaning of course He is without sin. The New Testament in several places teach that Jesus was without sin.

     1 Peter 2:22 says in regard to Jesus "Who committed no sin nor was any deceit found in His mouth". 2 Corinthians 5:21 "He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him" So the Bible is clear Jesus was without sin!

     What about Mary? If Mary was sinless as the Catholic Church teaches, there would be like there is for Jesus, bible verses that would teach that Mary was sinless. But guess what? There not. Catholics claim that the when the angel says to Mary "Hail Mary full of grace" in Luke 1:28, he was acknowledging the fact that Mary was sinless. However I have two comments on this. First, the Greek New Testament never calls Mary "Full of Grace".Only Jesus in John 1:14 and Stephen in ACTS 6:8 is called that. Secondly, what does grace mean? It means "unmerited favor" not sinless. So John give me a list of bible verses that teaches that Mary was sinless.

     So what is the biblical evidence that Mary was a sinner? The same verses that can be used to prove that I'm a sinner proves that Mary was a sinner also.

     First, Romans 3:23 states "For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God" The only exemption of one being sinless is God himself. In fact Jesus said in Mark 10:18 ""No one is good--except God alone." If indeed Mary was sinless, she would be Good

     Secondly, in Luke 1:47, Mary said "and my spirit rejoices in God my Savior". The definition of the word Savior in Christianity is God or Jesus Christ as the redeemer of sin and saver of souls. John, 1 Peter 3:18, Romans 4:25, and Romans 5:8 teaches that Jesus died for sinners not sinless people. In fact the Gospel is the fact that Jesus died for sinners. 1 Corinthians 15:2-4 states "By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain. For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, and that He was buried, and that He was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures". Im not going to tell you John what you believe but I am going to tell you what the Catholic Church believes. They believe that although Mary was sinless, Jesus died for her. Which is not true and no need for Mary to have a Savior if she was sinless.

     Third according to Luke 2:21-24, Mary went to the Temple with two doves or two young pigeons. One for the Burnt Offering and the other for the Sin Offering. I will go into this more in detail in my next post."

Closing Comments

Alright, get to thinking and praying about how you would respond. I hope all of you have a great week!

Donations

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