Apologetics for the Masses - Issue #91

I receive, on pretty much a daily basis, emails from people who ask me to step in and help them in their email exchanges with folks from various Protestant denominations. They’ll be going back and forth with someone and then they get into a spot where they feel they’re over their head and they come looking for help.

Unfortunately, I simply do not have the time to be able to respond to such requests. I could easily spend my entire day, each and every day, doing nothing but answering emails. The problem is, answering emails doesn’t put food on the table. Although, I am thinking about setting up something where I would answer questions for some minimal donation – sort of an apologetics consulting service. I’m still thinking about that one…

Anyway, what I’ve tried to do, instead of answering hundreds of individual emails, is use these email newsletters to show people, in general, how to respond to whatever situations you might get into when engaging in a dialogue with a non-Catholic. Usually, I use my own dialogues as material, but occasionally, I make use of something someone sends me. That is the case in this newsletter. The email below is from Lynn. She asked me to help formulate a response to an email from a pastor she was corresponding with.

So, I’ll start off with her email, and the pastor’s, then I’ll repeat the pastor’s email and intermingle my response with his comments.

Challenge/Response/Strategy

From Lynn:

I could use your help in answering this Pastor [see email below]. I’m looking up info from the Catechism, but I’m not well versed in the Bible (chapter and verse). this pastor says that he was educated in Catholic schools, and that he is well informed of our beliefs. I would like to answer his email, since he has blocked my responses to his blog on his website. Any help would be appreciated.

Thank you,

Lynn

From Pastor Chris Browne:

Lynn,

I’ve appreciated our conversation online up until your last posting…

As you also noted, I do not believe that many of the teachings of the Catholic church are biblical.

And since I’m guessing that you won’t be attending the series at this point, I wanted to give you the opportunity to hear a bit of where I believe the Catholic Church is in error and teaches lies that are not based in scripture.

Nowhere does Christ teach a works based salvation.

Nowhere does Christ teach that Grace is imparted from anything else other than the cross of Jesus Christ and belief in Jesus as the Way, Truth and Life.

Nowhere in all of Scripture does the word “purgatory” appear.

Nowhere is “Mary worship” seen as anything less than the same type of idolatry that the pagans (who were destroyed by the Jewish armies) practiced when they worship Diana and raised their Asherah poles.

Nowhere do the Bible or Jesus teach that the church imparts grace.

Nowhere does the Bible talk about anyone (including a priest) being a mediator between God and men, but Jesus Christ.

Not all of these will be covered during the series, but as you can see there are some MAJOR differences.

But the main difference where I believe the Catholic Church has mislead well meaning people like yourself is in the are of salvation and the person and work of Jesus Christ. When Jesus said, “It is finished” on the cross." He did not stutter. His blood paid for your sins and for mine. There is no other work that you or I can do to add to the work of the cross. Ephesians 2:8-9 is very clear, “For it is BY GRACE” we have been saved through faith, and NOT of ourselves, it is the GIFT of God, NOT by works lest anyone should boast."

Lynn that is a huge verse. It is the way to freedom in Christ and Salvation.

If you desire, I’m willing to continue our conversation via email. I believe that you are very well meaning and very educated in the teachings of the Catholic Church. Your previous postings were very accurate statements of the Catholic Catechism. Unfortunately, the Catholic Catechism is not an accurate statement of Scripture.

I hope that you will do with Scripture what you’ve now done with the press release. Go back and read it for what it says, and not for what you hope it says.

God loves you and wants you to know the truth.

Chris Browne

Life Connections Church

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Pastor Browne

Lynn,

I’ve appreciated our conversation online up until your last posting…

As you also noted, I do not believe that many of the teachings of the Catholic church are biblical.

And since I’m guessing that you won’t be attending the series at this point, I wanted to give you the opportunity to hear a bit of where I believe the Catholic Church is in error and teaches lies that are not based in scripture.

Comments/Strategies: He was apparently teaching a series at his church on the “Lies of Catholicism” or some such thing, and below he shares a few of those “lies.”

Pastor Browne Nowhere does Christ teach a works based salvation.

Comments/Strategies: Pastor Browne, I thought you were well-versed in the teachings of the Catholic Church? Apparently you are not if you believe the Church teaches a salvation based on works. The Church does not now, nor has it ever, taught that salvation is based on one’s works. If you are telling people that, then you are spreading misinformation and you, as a pastor and a Christian, should not engage in such activities. If you, Pastor Browne, can find something in the Catechism of the Catholic Church (the official teaching of the Catholic Church), that says Catholics believe we are saved by our works – please share it with me so that I may leave my Church and join yours. You won’t be able to find that passage in the Catechism because it does not exist.

Having said that, however, I feel the need to further point out, that while works in and of themselves do not save us, they are, nonetheless, an important part of the salvation process. I can point to many passages of Scripture that state that very thing, but I will share just a couple with you:

James 2:24 – “You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.” I think you believe in justification by faith alone, don’t you, Pastor? Yet, the Bible states, very clearly and very plainly, the exact opposite of what you believe. I find that a bit ironic, don’t you? I mean, afterall, you go by the Bible don’t you? Yet, you don’t believe what the Bible very clearly states in James 2:24.

Romans 2:6-7 – “For He [God] will render unto every man according to his works. To those who by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, He will give eternal life.” Forgive me for asking, but doesn’t the Bible very clearly say that God will render eternal life unto every man who by patience in well-doing seeks for glory and honor and immortality? Why do you wish to contradict Paul’s words here with your teaching that God doesn’t render eternal life unto men who do these things? I can give many scripture verses that show the importance of works in the process of salvation, but I think those two will suffice for now.

Pastor Browne Nowhere does Christ teach that Grace is imparted from anything else other than the cross of Jesus Christ and belief in Jesus as the Way, Truth and Life.

Comments/Strategies: First of all, Catholics believe we are saved by God’s grace and God’s grace alone. And we further believe that all grace comes from God and from no one else. Second, where exactly does it say that grace is only imparted, as you interpret it, from the cross of Christ and from believing in Jesus Christ as the Way, the Truth, and the Life? Which verses are you referring to?

Finally, I would ask this question: Is it by God’s grace that our sins are covered? I assume you will say, “Yes,” to that question. But, that leads me to look at James 5:19-20 which states that if someone brings a sinner back from the error of their ways, then that will “cover a multitude of sins.” And, in 1 Peter 4:8 we see this: “Above all hold unfailing your love for one another, since love covers a multitude of sins.”

In other words, Pastor Browne, our actions – bringing a sinner back from his sinful ways, loving others – can cover a multitude of sins. Our actions can result in God’s grace being released into our lives. But, this is not a case where I do something and God owes me His grace, it is a case of me being a member of Christ’s Body, and because I am a member of Christ’s Body, He is working in me and through me for His good pleasure. So, any “work” that I do, is actually a work of Christ through me…it is only by the grace of God that I can do a good work. You draw a false dichotomy between good works and God’s grace – that it’s either good works that save us or Christ’s death on the cross. In the Catholic Faith, we do not teach one or the other. We teach that one can result only because of the other. Without Christ’s death on the cross, there can be no good works; and, without those good works done by the grace of God, we cannot abide in Christ; and, if we do not abide in Christ, we will have no life in us.

I hope you understand that you are, through your misunderstanding of the Catholic Faith, passing along false information. Again, that is not something a Christian should be doing. If you want to disagree with what I believe…fine. But, disagree with what I really believe.

Pastor Browne Nowhere in all of Scripture does the word “purgatory” appear.

Comments/Strategies: This is a specious argument. Nowhere in all of Scripture does the word “Trinity” appear, yet you believe in the Trinity, don’t you? If you are open to it, I can readily provide you with scriptural support for Purgatory.

Pastor Browne Nowhere is “Mary worship” seen as anything less than the same type of idolatry that the pagans (who were destroyed by the Jewish armies) practiced when they worship Diana and raised their Asherah poles.

Comments/Strategies: Again, I thought you claimed to know Catholic teaching?! I will make the same challenge as above: Show me one instance in the Catechism which teaches that Catholics are to “worship” Mary, and I will leave the Catholic Church tomorrow and join your church. You won’t be able to do it, because that passage does not exist. The Catechism does, however, quite clearly and plainly state that Mary is a creature and is not to be worshipped. Shame on you for spreading such a lie about Catholicism.

Pastor Browne Nowhere do the Bible or Jesus teach that the church imparts grace.

Comments/Strategies: I think you may have a somewhat shallow understanding of what the church is. Is the church not the Body of Christ? Are you saying that Jesus cannot, and does not, impart grace to and through His own Body?

Pastor Browne Nowhere does the Bible talk about anyone (including a priest) being a mediator between God and men, but Jesus Christ.

Comments/Strategies: Actually, that’s not really true. In the Old Testament, wouldn’t you say that the prophets were mediators between God and men? The priests also, as we see quite easily in Leviticus 5:5-6, acted as mediators between God and men. Now, you might say that was Old Testament and that doesn’t apply any more, but I will show you examples in the New Testament, as well. In Col 1:24, does not Paul say that in his flesh he completes what is lacking in Christ’s afflictions? Does James 5:16 not tell us to confess our sins to one another? And in John 20:21-23, doesn’t Jesus give the Apostles the ability to forgive and retain sins? Isn’t that mediating between God and man? And you, do you not pray for others when they ask it? Are you not mediating between God and man with your prayers for someone else other than yourself? Of course you are!

What you fail to understand is this whole thing about being a member of the Body of Christ. As members of His Body, we share in what He does. Christ is the sole mediator between God and man, but as members of His Body, we can share in His role as mediator. Just as we have only one Father who is in Heaven, yet, as a father of my own children, I can share in God’s Fatherhood…even though He is truly the only Father.

Pastor Browne Not all of these will be covered during the series, but as you can see there are some MAJOR differences.

Comments/Strategies: There are indeed some “MAJOR” differences – MAJOR differences between what the Catholic Church actually teaches and what you are telling people it teaches.

Pastor Browne But the main difference where I believe the Catholic Church has mislead well meaning people like yourself is in the are of salvation and the person and work of Jesus Christ. When Jesus said, “It is finished” on the cross." He did not stutter. His blood paid for your sins and for mine. There is no other work that you or I can do to add to the work of the cross. Ephesians 2:8-9 is very clear, “For it is BY GRACE” we have been saved through faith, and NOT of ourselves, it is the GIFT of God, NOT by works lest anyone should boast."

Lynn that is a huge verse. It is the way to freedom in Christ and Salvation.

Comments/Strategies: First of all, for the record, there is nothing in Eph 2:8-9 that contradicts anything in the Catholic Faith. Second, Eph 2:8-9 is indeed a “huge” verse, but then, so are all the verses of Scripture. We cannot take one verse, rip it out of its context, and use it to trump all the other verses. Scripture says that man shall live by “every” word of God, and that’s what we do in the Catholic Church. You see, Eph 2:8-9 is a “huge” verse, but so is Eph 2:10. It states: “For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.” You see, Pastor Browne, God has prepared good works for us beforehand – before He even created us – that we should walk in them. In other words, it is God’s will that we do these good works, wouldn’t you say? And, if we don’t do these good works that God has prepared for us, do you still think we go to Heaven? If you do, then you are contradicting Matthew 7:21 which states that only those who do the will of God will enter the Kingdom of Heaven. With all due respect, Pastor, but there are some huge scriptural holes in your theology.

Another “huge” verse on salvation is from Gal 5:6, “For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcison is of any avail, but faith WORKING through love.” Faith has to work, Pastor Browne, or it won’t save you. Faith alone? Not in the Bible.

One other “huge” verse, among many about salvation, is from Matt 19:16-17. This is the only incident recorded in Scripture where Jesus is asked directly what one must do to have eternal life. And what does Jesus say? Believe in me as the Way, the Truth, and the Life and you will have eternal life? No! He says, “Keep the commandments.” Doesn’t that fall in the category of works?

Pastor Browne If you desire, I’m willing to continue our conversation via email. I believe that you are very well meaning and very educated in the teachings of the Catholic Church. Your previous postings were very accurate statements of the Catholic Catechism. Unfortunately, the Catholic Catechism is not an accurate statement of Scripture.

Comments/Strategies: Unfortunately, you are incorrect in your statement. The Catholic Catechism in nowise contradicts Scripture. In fact, if you look in the back of the Catechism, you will see a scriptural index – citations of Scripture in the Catechism – that is some 32 pages long. The Catechsim is in perfect accord with the Bible.

Pastor Browne I hope that you will do with Scripture what you’ve now done with the press release. Go back and read it for what it says, and not for what you hope it says.

Comments/Strategies: I hope the doctor will take some of his own medicine and that you will do the same – go back and read Scripture without the Protestant filters you have been taught by men. Open your eyes to the truth.

Pastor Browne God loves you and wants you to know the truth.

Comments/Strategies: Indeed He does and He wants the same for you. I pray that one day the scales will be lifted from your eyes and that you will come to understand Scripture not as men have taught it, but as God has taught it.

And, to close, Pastor Browne, I would just like to ask you a couple of questions. Obviously we disagree on what Scripture says. For example, I know you’re going to tell me that James 2:24 doesn’t really mean what it actually says – you’ll find some way to explain away that verse that contradicts your man-made dogma of salvation by faith alone. So, my question is this: By what authority do you claim your interpretation of Scripture is more authoritative than mine? Are you infallible in your interpretation of the Bible?

Chris Browne

Life Connections Church

In Conclusion

Normally, I wouldn’t have answered all of these questions and comments all at once, I would have picked one or two to focus on and just gone from there.

I answered all of these this time to show that they can all be answered, and quite easily, and to show that Pastor Browne’s understanding of the Catholic Faith is not as good as it could be – whether out of ignorance or out of malice, can’t really tell at this point.

Also, I went ahead and answered all of them because quite often these self-appointed “pastors” will not respond once you start hitting them with the real truths of Catholicism and back up what you say with Scripture. So, take as many shots as possible now with the thought that it might be the last shot you get. If he responds to her, then she can start to narrow the number of topics to discuss in any given email. I generally recommend just taking one or two at a time.

And, of course, you cannot let someone go without asking them one or more or several questions. Ask questions and keep asking questions. Get the other guy to defend what he believes and to tell you why he believes it. I can guarantee you that most of his response will not be supported by Scripture.

I hope all of you have a great weekend!

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